QcCowboy

I think either I poorly worded my thoughts or you misread them.

I'm not advocating "despising a composer BECAUSE of his lack of craft".

My comments were in regard to the accusation of "dreadful music".

Is music "dreadful" because you don't like it? (in other words, the simple fact that it does not please you somehow defines an absolute quality: dreadfullness)
Or do you not like it because "it is dreadful"? (some external defining characteristic defines what aspect of the music in question is lacking, thus making it "dreadful music")

They are not absolute consequences one of the other.
And rely heavily upon a clear definition of "dreadful".

I can dislike music that is dreadful (my definition of dreadful music is music that is badly written = poorly crafted).

I can also dislike music that is not "dreadful". It just does not please me / communicate to me.

Funny thing, I HAVE been known to enjoy some pieces of music that I consider "poorly crafted".

I will disagree with you that "craft" is "almost impossible to define". Craft encompasses a great number of variables, and while there is a great deal of flexibility in what constitutes "craft", we can agree that a solid mastery of harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, and other tools of musical creation, are good indicators of "craft".

I suspect that you and I are discussing two completely different issues.

I understand perfectly your reference to a composer whose craft is meticulous but whose music is empty. However, that's not really what I am discussing here.

I am purely responding to the above-quoted inference that Mahler is a "dreadful" composer, and encouraging the original poster to justify that assertion.

"I like / dislike this music" is rarely a reflection of the actual quality of the music being discussed.

Whether one likes or dislikes a composer as a personal issue is irrelevant if one is discussing that composer's abilities.

To say that "composer-X is a bad composer" requires substantiation through more than "because I don't like his music" or "because I think his music isn't original". (besides, the latter comment requires a substantial demonstration of musical knowledge, which as yet, I have seen very few people capable of bringing to the table).

I can think of MANY composers whose music I dislike.
I can only think of a handful that I think are "bad composers".