Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gilbert
..I made the claim that "Jazz musicians pretend that Jazz is much more complicated than it actually is." This pissed of Robin, and he told me to make a thread so that he could educate me.
I am ready to learn.
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I'm going to guess that he is going to start listing off concepts in Jazz that I haven't heard of. But let's keep in mind that this is doesn't prove anything - my experience with jazz is not necessarily relevant to my claim. Also, i believe that there are concepts that exist in Jazz which are very complex. But my claim is that Jazz musicians would have us believe that there are ideas of extreme complexity which they are processing at any moment when playing a tune, but I would argue that most of Jazz is just deducing the mode, picking a scale, and mimicking motifs from either the tune or from others' solos.
And that is where, I am about to be told, I am completely and utterly ignorant.
I'm ready.
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Okay,
"Jazz is just deducing the mode, picking a scale, and mimicking motifs from either the tune or from others' solos."
I suspect this stems from your relatively limited listening experience...Have you dug into your dad's record collection yet? I can't disagree with the above statement in many cases - especially when dealing with younger players
That's how you learn to play...you study. You lean you scales and modes, and the relationships between them (I'm trying to keep to laymans terms here). You transcribe the masters, you learn the tunes, you memorize common patterns (licks)... The problem arises when the players feels this is satisfactory and that proficiency with these
basics constitutes
mastery of the genre. The university jazz education scene is laden with morons who think like this. Even many prominent professionals - heralded are heavies - are prone to flying on autopilot.
I agree with you - unthinking, unlistening robots are a bad thing. YOU however, have likely not been exposed to enough SERIOUS jazz to be able to tell the difference.
I assure you Dan, that
true masters of jazz have surpassed the mere technical requirements and assimilated, ingrained and molded the skills into their own personal voice. This is the ultimate goal of any jazz player - to be unique and individual...and to play and interact with other uniquely individual voices.
ALSO, we're talking about a HUGE friggin umbrella encompassing a vast genre. Jazz means so many different things, to so many different people... but that's yet another discussion.
Also, if it's the idea of
improvisation that bothers you (as I suspect it might), don't dismiss the entire practice of jazz composition. You're talking as if jazz is entirely made-up and lacks the premeditation and forethought of it's boxy cousin (boxy...square...classical...get it?). Not so - even when discussing improvisation, as others have mentioned. Solos are as logical and intricate as any 'composed' music - and jazz incorporates many of the same principles of composition as classical.
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More to come...