Is atonal music dead?

Hi SSC,

Out of interest, could you give me some examples of Schoenbergs work where he didn't use a 'system' so to speak? I'd be interested to hear how mentally percieved atonal music sounds.

Personally I think the best piece of Schoenberg's that I've heard is Verklarte Nacht...! At least that's true so far.

Well, Verklärte Nacht isn't atonal. Check out Pierrot Lunaire, for example: Arnold Schoenberg - Catalogue of Works - Compositions - op. 21
If you can't play this from the site, there's also recordings on YouTube. (I believe you'll also find recordings of all the other pieces I posted here on this site.)

Or here, the six little piano pieces:
YouTube - 6 pieces for piano Op. 19 by Schoenberg (Beroff)

Or here something out of the 5 orchestra pieces Op. 16
YouTube - Arnold Schoenberg: Orchesterstuecke op. 16 1 of 2

Or the "Buch der Hängenden Gärten":
Arnold Schoenberg - Catalogue of Works - Compositions - op. 15

All of these predate the dodecaphonic phase of course, but they are called "atonal". (Schönberg himself didn't like that term being applied to his music. He preferred "atonical".)

Out of the works after the "invention" of dodecaphony, "Moses and Aron" is largely non-dodecaphonic, I believe:
YouTube - Arnold Schoenberg: Moses und Aron (Excerpts, 1 of 2)

Yep, Verklarte Nacht pre-dated atonality (at least in Vienna). It's a very Mahler-esque piece, and to be honest I prefer it over his atonal works.

I'll have a listen to the pieces you linked, thanks a lot!

On a side note - atonality didn't really catch on in England to the extent it did in other countries. The predominant composers were much more traditional in their harmonic approach (although they did do some astounding things). Maybe English people generally just find it harder to listen to atonal works..!?!

If you like Schönberg's tonal pieces, you should check out the Gurrelieder too, if you haven't already. Huge (orchestra size) and great!

And yes, this is an interesting thing about England. But you still have people like Birtwistle or Ferneyhough!

Thanks I'll have a listen to that piece too.

Yes there are a few atonal composers, and I'm sure there will be many apsiring atonalists, but romanticism was as popular as ever throughout the first half of the nineteenth century and beyond. To be honest, I have absolutely no idea what kind of music is favoured in this country today, but I'm hoping that if somebody wrote something Elgar-esque with perhaps a stronger sense of modernity, it would go down very well. Unfortunately, I am several years away from writing something that I think is good enough, let alone whether the majority of the country think its good enough..! But I live in hope!

Berg's music is a good example of "mentally percieved atonal music". Wozzeck continues to be an emormous success, despite its difficulty, with most opera companies and audiences.

And, by the way, isn't all music "mentally percieved"?

only if its dead to you

Originally Posted by LDunn

And, by the way, isn't all music "mentally percieved"?

Erm, at the risk of sounding totally ridiculous, I should have said 'mentally, musically, cognitized music'...!

Basically, I meant music that is composed in the mind (can of course be elaborated later), as apposed to something that is dictated more or less by a set of 'strategies'.

Right. I dont what to hijack the thread, but surely even music supposedly composed in the mind, as it were, is done using a set of strategies, unconscious, intuitive or not. They have developed from your experience of various musics. Serial technique is, much like fugue, a way of externalising intuition, so that the composer can focus more on the pure aspects of structure and logic in the music, and not be attracted to, or distracted by a momentary idea. I am not suggesting this is a "better" way, it is just "a" way; but to emphasise, all music is composed using strategies (or more accurately, conventions) at one level or another.

L.

Atonal music is not dead at all. It is alive and kicking! I'd even say writing atonally is still the way to go when it comes to contemporary art music. The most exciting and most innovative composers of today (Carter, Boulez, Birtwistle, Lachenmann, Ferneyhough, Kurtag, Jonathan Harvey, Olga Neuwirth, etc.) all compose in a more or less atonal idiom. I believe there are still endless new possibilities waiting to be explored within the atonal realm and the modernist aesthetic.

Originally Posted by Gardener

Or here, the six little piano pieces:
YouTube - 6 pieces for piano Op. 19 by Schoenberg (Beroff)

Just a side note - what a terrible performance of one of my favorite Schoenberg works. It seems like Beroff was just rushing through these pieces, while that typical Viennese expressionist touch (which these pieces need) was almost completely missing...