Beethoven

Originally Posted by Anders

I actually don't know who conducted my favorite set. I downloaded it from the internet a while ago and the ID3 tags were nonexsistant..



Don't actually know this set. How does he interpret the music? I might check it out but if it's anything like Karajan..

Not at all! Toscanini is considered the greatest of all conductors. On Amazon, you can get the 9 symphonies by him, and it costs less than 18 dollars. The sound quality is old, but the conducting is top-notch! You should seriously check it out.

Karajan himself said Beethoven had to be conducted politely. Toscanini didn't think so.

Originally Posted by Anders

Can you process this? Is anything unclear? It'll most likely be much more clear once you start listening to the symphonies, but it'd be nice if you roughly grasped it in advance.

Ok I've listen to it Anders. Is the introduction the slow theme at the beginning? Then theme A should be the fast joyful theme? Theme B after that.. But when does it start? At the entrance of the piccolo( or is it a flute?)? Then it goes into development. Then I hear the first theme once again, then theme B, then I'm lost...

Any pointers? Or is my listening all wrong?

Gah. How did I miss this? I have to go now, but i'll get back to you on this in a day or so.. In the meantime anyone else that knows the symphony is free to answer of course

Oooh, nice thread, I just got the complete set too, so I'll follow along.

Oh, and thanks for the explanation of sonata form, I was a bit hazy in some areas.

Well Nigel, I tell ya, everyone in the audience gets tired after 20 minutes, thats a fact. But, you CAN maybe focus on the main themes to keep you awake I guess? For me, when the big cymbal bangs comes in, I'm totally awake. I Hope that helped, if not, I tried my best.

Cheers

An informed listener doesen't get tired after 20 minutes - he is entranced by the music and doesen't respond to worldly things like ''tiredness''.. Kind of. But thanks to James for the excellent example of an attitude you should try, at all costs, to avoid.

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Anyway, Nigel (and others), as far as I can remember the first symphony is laid out in this fashion:

Introduction - Slow, pompous material in the style of a french overture

Exposition THEME 1 - energetic, extremely simple triadic theme
Exposition Modulating Bridge - nonthematic bridge which goes to g major for theme 2

Exposition THEME 2 - delightfull, also extremely simple theme
Exposition CADENCEMATERIAL - material that serves to transition back to theme 1 for an exposition repeat

here the entirety of exposition is repeated, the difference being that the cadence material doesen't transition into an exposition repeat, but a development.. The development is completely classical, filled with sequences of the main theme.

after the development is over you'll hear the exposition again, but it's slightly altered. You'll know the development is over when the main theme 1 comes back in played by the entiiire orchestra.. After that we hear the bridge again which doesen't go to g major, causing theme 2 to also be in c major!

after the exposition has been played out you'll hear a coda of moderate length that concludes the movement

Clear enough? I might edit in more details once I have the recordings available to me..

PS: The last movement is also in sonata form. Do you want to go through that one as well? And can you grasp the middle movements? The minuet of this symphony is extremely interesting for it's period...

Hmm.. The exposition is repeated. I think I can roughly get it now.. I know where the development is.. But I can't tell FOR SURE which one is theme A, when it starts.. I just know it's the exposition. And I don't know if I identified the bridges right though..

I know! *searches for midi* *finds midi* Listen to the attached midi and follow along with this. Do the same thing with the recording when you've got all of this down.

Exposition

1. 00:00 - Introduction

2. 01:19 - Theme 1

3. 01:45 - Modulating bridge

4. 02:12 - Theme 2

5. 02:59 - Cadence Material

6. 03:28 - 2. to 5. repeated

Development

7. 05:37 - Development

Recapitulation (altered repeat of exposition)

8. 07:08 Theme 1

9. 07:21 - non-modulating bridge

10. 07:45 Theme 2 (now in C major)

11: 08:58 - Coda
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So, Beethoven's 1st, first movement, goes like this:

Intro - Theme 1 - bridge - Theme 2 - cadence material - development - Theme 1 - bridge - Theme 2 - Coda

How do ya like me now? When we've gone through 5-6 of the symphonies you'll be able to notice the form like this for yourself on a 1st-2nd listen.

I personally prefer Hogwood's recording to Karajan's, but that's because of the voices used in the 9th symphony... and I like period instruments (saying that probably just started the age-old argument up again)

If I were you I'd listen to Beethoven 1st, 2nd and 4th symphonies last as they are by and large the *gulp* worst. I mean, they're still not bad, they're just not "BEethoven". One's you have to listen (in order ofmy favourite)
Beethoven 9
Beethoven 6
Beethoven 3
Beethoven 5
Beethoven 8
Beethoven 7
Beethoven 1
Beethoven 2
Beethoven 4

Nine is by far the deepest, number six is simply beautiful, number 3 is incredible, number 5 is, well, number 5 and the rest are playful.