Home  Articles   Profiles  Forum  Register  Notation Software  Lessons  Archives  Contact 
Register Board Rules Member List Member Map Password Recovery Search Today's Posts Mark All Forums As Read Calendar Library
Go Back   Young Composers Music Forum > Discussion > Repertoire

Welcome to the Young Composers Music Forum. You are currently browsing as a guest - join today to post messages, upload music, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Reply

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 4:21 AM

Nigel's Avatar

The anti-genre-ist
Group: Members
Joined: 9-November 05
Posts: 763
Member Number: 306
Beethoven

Hello guys. I just bought all the symphonies of beethoven. There's also his spring sonata and egmont bundled inside them. So before I start listening? I would like to have some tips on how to listen to beethoven.. Like what should I be aware of and such.

And since his movements in his symphony are rather long, how do I keep my concentration and prevent it from fading away?

Thanks for the help.
__________________
Quote:
A: People wonder why we ugrlug tribesmen don't like your music. Here's why: tone, tone, tone, repeat ad infinitum. No barking whatsoever. Boooooooring.

B: Clearly you've never heard Who Let the Dogs Out
Reply With Quote
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 4:31 AM
Anders

Guest
Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Welcome to the dark side, Nigel.

Anyway, I've listened to most works by Beethoven - you'd better hear me out. I just need to know something first - are you familiar with sonata form? (this is essential when it comes to the symphonies)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 4:38 AM

Nigel's Avatar

The anti-genre-ist
Group: Members
Joined: 9-November 05
Posts: 763
Member Number: 306
I think so.. Exposition - Development - Recap?
__________________
Quote:
A: People wonder why we ugrlug tribesmen don't like your music. Here's why: tone, tone, tone, repeat ad infinitum. No barking whatsoever. Boooooooring.

B: Clearly you've never heard Who Let the Dogs Out
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 4:40 AM
Anders

Guest
Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posts: n/a
Member Number:
That's roughly it. But can you break it down even more? Like, what does the exposition consist of?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 4:49 AM

Nigel's Avatar

The anti-genre-ist
Group: Members
Joined: 9-November 05
Posts: 763
Member Number: 306
Hmm.. Exposition consists of 2 themes. Then a change of key.. I don't know about the development section, except I know that it can be in various keys... Then the recapitulation contains the theme 1 again in a different key, then ends on the original key the sonata starts..
Ah right then there's an optional coda at the end.
__________________
Quote:
A: People wonder why we ugrlug tribesmen don't like your music. Here's why: tone, tone, tone, repeat ad infinitum. No barking whatsoever. Boooooooring.

B: Clearly you've never heard Who Let the Dogs Out
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 5:43 AM
Anders

Guest
Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Ok, that's more than enough. You seem to have it down alright, but I'll just provide a general overview of the form here for your convenience. (and because I feel like typing a lot)

Let's say we have a ''Symphony in C major''. (Note that this symphony contains an introduction. This is optional. Beethoven's first, second, fourth and seventh all have long, pompous introductions.) We're going to look at the first movement, which is in sonata form.

Outline of form -

1. Introduction
2. Exposition (Subject I - Modulating Bridge - Subject II - Cadence material/codetta) - Development - Recapitulation
3. Recapitulation (Subject I - Bridge - Subject II - Cadence material/codetta)
4. Coda

The introduction introduces and psychologically adds weight to the movement. It's usually slower than the exposition itself and may contain material that will be further developed in the exposition. (often, this material is *very* subtly borrowed - only your inner ear will recognise it when it appears in the exposition)

The piece starts with an exposition. The exposition is initiated by a ''Subject I''. This subject is in the home key (in this case, C major) of the piece. After this subject has been played out, you will hear a transition - this is the modulating bridge. You'll recognise it in that it doesen't have a thematic profile - it just serves as a bridge to modulate from the first subject to the second subject) The bridge modulates to the dominant key, which in this case is G major, for the second subject.

When the second subject has been played out, you'll hear some cadence material (also called a codetta) which concludes the exposition and initiates either a repeat of the exposition or the start of the development.

The development is often the most interesting section of a piece in the sonata mold. It's often harmonically unstable, and the themes can be broken down, integrated into each other to form a new theme, (!) etc. This is where a classical composer has the most artistic freedom. There's really no limit to the number of parts in a development section - some of Beety's developments are absolutely gigantic.

The last part of the development often stresses the tonic key of the piece to prepare for the Recapitulation. The recapitulation is pretty much an altered replay of the exposition, except in this case the modulating bridge is not a modulating bridge. The bridge doesen't go to g major anymore! It just stays in C. This means that, for the recap, the second subject is also in C major! Intriguing. The codetta concludes/cadence material concludes the recap as we move on to the Coda.

The coda is there to end the movement and bang the home key, just there, home. It's similar to the development section in many ways - the only really important thing here is to bang home the home key and create a convincing ending to the movement.

Note:

- Remember that in Beethoven, codas are more expansive - particularly in the later symphonies. They've often been called second development sections, and rightly so.

- ALL of Beethoven's first movements in his symphonies are in this form. Sometimes the last movements will take on this form as well.

------------------

Can you process this? Is anything unclear? It'll most likely be much more clear once you start listening to the symphonies, but it'd be nice if you roughly grasped it in advance.

Do you want me to guide you through each of the symphonies? I could provide a general outline of each movement if you want me to. I could point out when the first theme comes in to play, the second theme, what devices Beethoven uses in his development.. etc..

Oh, and what recording did you buy? Who's you conductor? Please don't say it's Karajan... That guy butchers the poor symphonies.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 6:08 AM

Nigel's Avatar

The anti-genre-ist
Group: Members
Joined: 9-November 05
Posts: 763
Member Number: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post

Can you process this? Is anything unclear? It'll most likely be much more clear once you start listening to the symphonies, but it'd be nice if you roughly grasped it in advance.

Do you want me to guide you through each of the symphonies? I could provide a general outline of each movement if you want me to. I could point out when the first theme comes in to play, the second theme, what devices Beethoven uses in his development.. etc..

Oh, and what recording did you buy? Who's you conductor? Please don't say it's Karajan... That guy butchers the poor symphonies.
These recordings are bought from japan.. And the conductors a japanese I think. I'll listen to the first symphony later today. (Maybe just the first movement.) Then if I have any questions, I'll post it here, so it can be viewed by all forum members and also act as good reference.
__________________
Quote:
A: People wonder why we ugrlug tribesmen don't like your music. Here's why: tone, tone, tone, repeat ad infinitum. No barking whatsoever. Boooooooring.

B: Clearly you've never heard Who Let the Dogs Out
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 7:10 AM
Anders

Guest
Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posts: n/a
Member Number:
Yes, yes, sounds good! And I agree, you should start try to grasp the first movement first.

It's simple, really, and the form can be comfortable to lean on when composing.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 3:46 PM

M_is_D's Avatar

Bringing Portuguese Order
Group: Members
Joined: 25-October 05
Posts: 5,542
Member Number: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Yes, yes, sounds good! And I agree, you should start try to grasp the first movement first.

It's simple, really, and the form can be comfortable to lean on when composing.
I think Toscanini's complete set totally pwns. What would you say?
__________________
Music - A complex organizations of sounds that is set down by the composer, incorrectly interpreted by the conductor, who is ignored by the musicians, the result of which is ignored by the audience.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mar 27 2007, 3:52 PM
Anders

Guest
Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In
Posts: n/a
Member Number:
I actually don't know who conducted my favorite set. I downloaded it from the internet a while ago and the ID3 tags were nonexsistant..

Quote:
I think Toscanini's complete set totally pwns. What would you say?
Don't actually know this set. How does he interpret the music? I might check it out but if it's anything like Karajan..
Reply With Quote
 

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.

RSS

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
Proprietary software and modifications Copyright ©2005 - 2008, Young Composers