Choral Competition [DEADLINE PASSED!] View Submissions Thread

Thinking of writing something really active and chaotic. I could set one of E.E. Cummings' poems...

Check out Persechetti's "Flower Songs", settings of a number of cumming's poems - for choir with piano accompanyment. Earlier this year, I participated as a singer in a recording of the entire set with one of the ensembles I sing with. I've just started to master it this last month in spits and spurts. I'm not aware of any other recordings of it. It turned out to be an aquired taste for most of the singers, including myself - and interestingly enough, the recordings actually make it more accessible. It is perhaps one of the only pieces I've appreciated more as a listener than a singer.

oh yeah, and thats e.e. cummings - no caps

Of course, I need a text first.

Shakespeare Sonnets?

About the whole voice range thing.....I sing tenor and I can sing from E2 i believe it is (the note 2 setps above low c) to D5 (the note one octave above the d above middle c) with good sound, and good breath support. And who is this man that said baritones should reach to Ab or Bb? Impossible. The professional range of a baritone is from F-E not C-B. If you have a multiple range option like myself I can see that but not if you have studied voice you work on that range right there and nothing more.

<Tyler Menzel

About the whole voice range thing.....I sing tenor and I can sing from E2 i believe it is (the note 2 setps above low c) to D5 (the note one octave above the d above middle c) with good sound, and good breath support. And who is this man that said baritones should reach to Ab or Bb? Impossible. The professional range of a baritone is from F-E not C-B. If you have a multiple range option like myself I can see that but not if you have studied voice you work on that range right there and nothing more.

<Tyler Menzel [/b]

Well, I am not "the man in question" that you speak of but I am a professional working baritone - so I can speak to this issue from first hand experience.
I can, after warming up, vocalize in full voice from Db2 or even C2 to Ab4. Now what I mean by vocalizing is I can reach those notes singing excersizes and vowels which make it somewhat easier to approach those notes. This however, is not my 'working' range. As a soloist, my working range is from F2 to F#4 or roughly 2 octaves. In choral situations where I am a section leader - (a baritone section leader mind you, we have a bass section leader as well), I will dip down into ledger-line-land as needed or as those notes are available, which can depend on a number of factors, like the amount of singing and the overall volumes required.
Notes outside of my working range are not as controlled or controllable as those in my working range. The high Ab in particular, while I can sing it covered and make it sound pretty good, is only available at f or mf at best, and I wouldn't dream of attempting it on a vowel like an 'oo'. I have sung A's before, but it isn't pretty. >_<
To put it in perspective, when preparing to sing a solo that includes an F#, it is not a bad idea to vocalize at least a half-step if not a whole step beyond that in order to have a cushion in performance. So, bottom line: you're both right (uh.. and wrong). Ab's are not impossible, but niether are they reasonable. Now, ask the same question of a true lyric baritone, (I prefer to call them second tenors) and the answer is different. Lyric baritones should be able to easily vocalize to Ab and beyond, even to As and B flats.

Of course, I need a text first.

Shakespeare Sonnets?

what happend to the good old days when everybody used a latin text?

I don't know about Shakespeare sonnets. I kinda want to use a text that's more appropriate in a choral situation. Sonnets translate much more easily to solos.

what happend to the good old days when everybody used a latin text?

I am using a Latin text. I just love my book "Translations and Annotations of the Choral Repertoire: Latin Texts" book. It's about $40. There's also one for German Texts.

Earthsongs Publishing
ISBN 0-9621532-0-6 Hbd

With all this talk about voice range I have to bring a quote from J.J.Fux:

"One has to observe that the closer the parts are led together the more perfect the sound will be, for a power compressed will become stronger."

English is not my strong side but he seems to be talking about voice ranges right???
Anyways, I'm glad that there is this discussion because different theory books usually brings different ranges, which only add to your confusion!!!
It seems that when this book I'm now using "J.J.Fux, Gradus ad Parnassum" was written, the alto voice occasionally took the f below the middle c??? and sometimes even the e as well?! He mentions the original alto clef encompassing the range of the alto voice - which does include the low f - and then he suggest the notes outside this clef to be used occasionally- the e is just outside.
Was this because male voices were singing the alto parts?
In the same way, in only one example in the entire book does the soprano take the high a and g?!

Someone mentioned opera or solo singers capability of reaching notes off range - is there a standard to follow, or is this capability purely individual?

Perhaps what we are looking for is a good book about voice range, showing us the facts.
Does anyone know if there is such a book?

Hummel, I agree, this is a good topic for conversation here given the nature of this competition. Regarding your question, I don't know. I seem to remember somewhere that a good cantus firmus was not suppose to have a wide range, butI wonder that Fux is talking about voice leading, and is saying that vertical structures voiced more tightly hold more power than those whose voices are spread out? - which is subjective territory, in my opinion.
When Fux talks of voices, I don't know that he's necessarily talking about vocalists. Rather, he's referring to any group of instruments.
Regardless, the issue of vocal range with voices is somewhat different than with orchestral instruments, whose ranges (especially on the bottom end) are terminally defined. But voices are personal instruments that are unique to the individual. Some vocalists have much wider working ranges than others. Even the post adolescent voice matures over the course of decades and range, and especially tone is affected. The bottom end of my vocal range has dipped almost a whole step since my 40th birthday, and I have not lost anything on top.
So where am I going with this? The important thing to keep in mind is WHO you're writing for. Picture in your mind the make-up of the ensemble. Is it your high-school SSA, or college jazz choir, the King Singers, Pavarotti, or the local tenor soloist and your church choir? Put a face and a sound with your thoughts. Make it personal.
Now, having said that. I'm going to describe two different ensembles that I both sing in and write for. I don't know if this is of any help for folks out there but..



<div align="center">Choir 1</div>
An amateur community choir, close-knit, auditioned, ~16 singers. Directed by a local college music professor. Reading level good to excellent. Ages ~ 40+. Average age 50. Intonation: excellent - we don't lose pitch. Sound: soft, round, delicate. Little to no vibrato.
Ranges. Bass: Very soft D's or Eb2's to E4. If you want a forte bass note, F2 is pushing things. Baritones G2 to F#4. Tenors - B2 to G with control. Altos - F3 to E5 - some alto's go lower - down to D3 with divisi - but I wouldn't consider writing down there unless it was only women's voices at that point. Soprano's B3 to A5 - many go higher.
Repertoire - Though we have performed heavier music, we excel at chamber works, and pieces with madrigalish textures. Tighter jazzier voicings and polychords sound nice because of the quality of intonation, lighter vocal style, and lack of vibrato. Precision oriented.



<div align="center">Choir 2</div>


<div align="left">Adult Church Choir. 20+ singers. Eight paid. Ages: you name it, we got it. Not auditioned, Reading abilities range from fair to excellent. There are a number of very good non-paid singers. The difficulty and amount of the material we sing usually discourages poor readers fairly quickly. All section leaders are strong voices, capable of giving convincing solo performances. Ensemble intonation: good, but can waver. Sound: heavy, big for its size, and can be powerful.
Range: Similar to first choir but Basses can sing strong Eb2 and even D2, soft C2's. Baritones range a bit lower as well. High F's are only reachable by the soloists. Alto's are the opposite. They certainly don't go as low as a D. F# is more like it - and they will complain (and rightly so) if they have to hang out there.
Repertoire - Many English Anthems from early to mid 20th century, some requisite non-heavy standard crowd pleasers, but lots of heavies and concerts featuring the likes of Bach, Mozart, Faure, Durfle, Brahms, etc. Contemporaries: Gowers, Whitacre, Petrich, etc.</div>
<div align="left">For those of you who are concerned about ranges, I offer these two choirs as models to consider. Generally speaking, at the extreme bottom of any vocal range, things get softer. Conversely, soft is usually not an option at the top of a given vocal range. Also, consider the vowels that are in play whenever writing at the extremes of a range. TRY AND SING IT YOURSELF in an appropriately similar range for YOUR voice. I will look into getting permission to posting one of my pieces (a short benediction response) recorded by the church choir, which is already on CD. Meanwhile, I will try and post one of my arrangements recorded by the community choir.</div>

Interesting development here. As a LYRIC baritone, which is how I have always labeled myself, I have a working range from Bb2 to G4. I have an extended range from F-G2 to Ab-Bb4. This is not an atypical voice range for a well trained Lyric Baritone, and I have no problem in the slightest writing solo music for said ranges. Operatic music reaches to these extended ranges quite frequently. However, that does not label such baritones as "second tenors" and I despise being labeled as such. Just as Mezzo's don't typically appreciate being labeled as "second sopranos". My range doesn't dip as low as that of a well trained bass, and doesn't reach as high as a well trained tenor. But as far as baritones are concerned, it's an impressive range indeed.

Basses who can sing deep below the staff (Bb1 and C2) are known typically as "Basso Profundo's" and their range doesn't typically reach above the bass staff. I have a feeling that if they tried to sing high above the staff, they would do so with a whiney or squeeky kind of sound. As for tenors singing below the staff, it would probably sound growled and forced. These are unusable ranges, in my opinion. If you write in a choral setting and you wish to use extreme ranges, that would be fine. Just as long as you are consistent with your ranges. If a Bass is expected to sing from F2-F4 (not unruly for a well-trained bass) then you can't have him singing low D's in one measure and high G's in the next. Unless he is a soloist (and you know anyone who can sing with that much flexibility).

That being said, I have a question for Nichtoven. We have several judges who have varied talents as performers and composers. Should we grade in several different categories? I would say that I would be good for judging solo arias (operatic), romantic choruses, or operatic scenes. I would not, however, be any good to you judging madrigal ensembles or renaissance settings. I think we should divide the compositions into groups and judge them accordingly. The best of each group may advance to the semi-finals, and the best be chosen from there. This seems to be the fairest and most decent way of judging a contest such as this.