Choral Competition [DEADLINE PASSED!] View Submissions Thread

This ought to be a good one and from the people I see entering it would be hard to be a judge!

I have been really busy writing with all my free time so I don't know if i'll enter, but I may enter toward the deadline or just decide to be a judge on this one. I'll figure that out here in the next few weeks.

Frankly, if one cannot see the value of choral music that doesn't have text, they obviously are not fully qualified to judge. A fair and good judge is one that recognizes all quality, whether or not they appreciate what the composer is doing. If you don't want to participate, then by all means, don't.
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I think this is a valid concern. And as I have stated, I am willing to concede my deficiencies in this regard. I simply can’t think of a single great choral work that doesn’t use text (in the broadest sense of the word). Would you kindly suggest one to me, Nickthoven? One that you consider of value, please.

Nick, Leightwing is a seasoned professional. Let's go easy on him.
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I appreciate your sentiment J. Lee. - We have had this discussion before and the results were fruitful. Thank you. I am more than willing to take my lumps on this one.

Don't get me wrong, certainly these entries would not be invalid, but I'd have a tendency to dismiss them out of hand because they don't really take advantage of what the instrument is capable of. [/b]

I am merely suggesting that it would be the exceptional work that could pique my interest and not use text. Note that I used the word “tendency” in the above quote. Certainly, I would happily look CAREFULLY at ALL submitted works. I would draw on my fairly extensive experience as both a choral composer and professional singer, and my biases would be based on these experiences - which, by the way, have included a number of works set without text, not all of which were without value (which BTW, may seem like a reversal of my previous statement, but I did not consider them ‘great’ works).

Nonetheless, I’m concerned that, lacking some basic parameters (as cmajchord has also mentioned) there will be many text-less submissions - precisely because it is easier. I think that especially in a YOUNG composer’s competition, participants who might not know otherwise would benefit from knowing that the setting of text is huge part of the art of choral writing, and composers that demonstrate proficiency in this area will enjoy a significant advantage in a competition.

Nickthoven, The more I think of it, the more respect I have for your wishes to avoid the placement of parameters on this competition. Restrictions are... well... restrictions. They're no fun for participants. In my initial comment, I never suggested that you place restrictions on entrants, I simply announced my opinion on a specific area of concern that I was concerned would rear its head, given the age and experience level of many of the entrants. I could be completly wrong on this count. All entries may end up set to text. Heck, after this diatribe..

Perhaps it could be stated that though good choral writing does not require text, generally speaking the setting of text represents both one of the greatest strengths - and greatest difficulties of composing in the genre - and judges will respect the amount of skill that working with text demands.

My offer still stands to participate as a judge. Feel free to PM me if you are considering but still have some concerns. Possibly we can come to an agreement. I certainly don't want to be a rusty cog in an otherwise happy machine. And I wish all the best with their entries.

Can i please join as competitor? Thanks

Well, I am a terrible lyric writer, but even so, I do it the old way. What I'm writing is a simple Kyrie eleison. When in doubt, use latin .

'Kyrie eleison' is actually Greek.

I think this is a valid concern. And as I have stated, I am willing to concede my deficiencies in this regard. I simply can’t think of a single great choral work that doesn’t use text (in the broadest sense of the word). Would you kindly suggest one to me, Nickthoven? One that you consider of value, please.

Well, I really like Percy Grainger's "Irish Tune from County Derry". It's the tune to "Danny Boy", but Grainger's original wordless arrangement for mixed choir precedes the creation of the words. It's just gorgeous, and a beautiful example of good vocal writing, that's why it's translated well to other ensembles too..

In reference to those who are now arguing about whether or not the use of a text would be valid, in my opinion, and if I were a judge, I would consider a "vocalise" or the use of "scat" syllables to be from a composer less skillful in vocal writing than one who was able to consider the rhythms, articulations and vowels within a given text to his artistic advantage. To write a piece using the mentioned textural devices (instead of a text) could show skill with voices imitating an instrumental composition, but would ultimately appear less tailored to a chorus.

Although, one time I did sing a piece in Maryland All-State Chorus where the words in the piece were invented words from different students (shiverglowa, lunious, shimonella, etc) to describe moonlight. Then the different made-up words were arranged in a very modern composition. It was actually pretty neat. The piece was entitled "Epitaph for Moonlight" and written by R. Murray Schafer.

Well, I really like Percy Grainger's "Irish Tune from County Derry". It's the tune to "Danny Boy", but Grainger's original wordless arrangement for mixed choir precedes the creation of the words. It's just gorgeous, and a beautiful example of good vocal writing, that's why it's translated well to other ensembles too..

Thank you -- there ya go - there is at least one - and I dare say there are probably a few more. I never said that it couldn't be or hasn't been done. I'm simply pointing out that this is not the norm. Maybe I need to think of it in opposite terms. Perhaps writing good choral music sans text is one of the hardest things to do well - seeing as there are so few masters that have been willing to even attempt it. But the end result of viewing it in this way may very well remain the same. That is, it should be harder for someone to win a choral composition with such an entry. They don't have the luxury of the great range of consonants and vowels, content, and meaning that text offers. Text painting is not an available technique to be taken advantage of. It's like a monochrome finger painting. As I have said before - not invalid - but not able to take advantage of a great range of colors, brushes, and range of textures that most painters have at thier avail. It would take a GREAT painter to create a masterpiece in this manner.

.. Now watch, someone's going to refer me to some Picasso fingerpainting masterpiece rendered with mascara on a tablecloth.

In reference to those who are now arguing about whether or not the use of a text would be valid, in my opinion, and if I were a judge, I would consider a "vocalise" or the use of "scat" syllables to be from a composer less skillful in vocal writing than one who was able to consider the rhythms, articulations and vowels within a given text in his composing artistically. To write a piece using the mentioned textural devices (instead of a text) could show skill with voices imitating an instrumental composition, but untimately appear less tailored to a chorus.
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This is certainly a part of what I’m talking about.

Although, one time I did sing a piece in Maryland All-State Chorus where the words in the piece were invented words from different students (shiverglowa, lunious, shimonella, etc) to describe moonlight. Then the different made-up words were arranged in a very modern composition. It was actually pretty neat.
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This doesn’t surprise me at all. It’s neat because invented words are words in every sense (of the word - lol) - they have meaning - and specific and dedicated meaning in this case. - For this reason, I think the very idea of them as text would be strong for consideration as a choral piece.