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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 2:37 PM

Justin Tokke's Avatar

Composer, Trombonist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart_A1ec View Post
i never thought so many people went through those subways!

6 grand a day, wow lol that's... uhm... 1.8 million a year! (but that's if you get 6 grand a day for 25 days out of the month, if you get it for 30 days [which is the average] then you would get 2.16 million XD)
Well, that may be a bit of an exageration. But Penn Station has 600,000 every day for sure. Times Square probably has about 200,000 to 400,000 people transfering esp. between the 7 and 1 trains (lol, those of you who take that route know what I'm talking about). If you want to make real money, then become part of the MTA. With 5 million riders every day (about 1.85 billion rides annually) all at $2 a piece, that works out to $3.6 billion every year just from subways. Add another 2.4 million bus riders per day (624 million per year) giving another $1.25 billion per year. Then add the 157.9 million commuter rail riders of Long Island Railroad and Metro-North: I guestimate about another $500 million. So add all that up and the MTA gets ticket sales of about $5.35 billion.

And yet, the entity is in massive debt.

But that's spread out over 468 subway stations and 656 miles of tracks, 243 bus lines, and 368 rail stations and 930 miles of track. So it's a bit more broad that busking at Times Square.


[End tangent]
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 4:01 PM

ahhh theres no room in he
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Originally Posted by composerorganist View Post
Ok, this became a HUGE post (a good deal of the advice I need to follow much more). Sorry.
no problem, I read it all and found it VERY helpful. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
To express anger when I stub my toe, I yell "SHIT", not "the position of the step lying at an obscure angle made my toe to swell at an alarming rate causing bruising and my anger towards the situation."
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 4:04 PM

ahhh theres no room in he
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oh and Justin... that made... close to no sense to me, sorry
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Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
To express anger when I stub my toe, I yell "SHIT", not "the position of the step lying at an obscure angle made my toe to swell at an alarming rate causing bruising and my anger towards the situation."
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 4:04 PM

nikolas's Avatar

freelance composer
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Robin: Is this your real number? I'm thinking of calling you at some point!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 5:56 PM

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Originally Posted by nikolas View Post
Robin: Is this your real number? I'm thinking of calling you at some point!

HAHAHA...no.

I'll PM you my actual number, if you want
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 9:33 PM

Corbin The Violist's Avatar

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Quote:
Originally Posted by QcCowboy View Post
There are VERY few composers who make a living by only composing.
Most have the old "back up plan" in action... teacher, athlete, porn-star, etc... (well, it depends just HOW well you want to be living)
Omg, you found my life plan.

I'm gonna be a porn star
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Jul 8 2008, 10:08 PM

sterilium's Avatar

Deranged Composer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart_A1ec View Post
I've always wanted to be three things:
1) A composer
2) A performer (in like either a) a symphonic orchestra or b) a movie orchestra type thing)
or
3) a computer geek person (like programmer)

I guess the easiest of them all would be a computer geek but I have ALWAYS loved music, I play just about everything and i've always been good at picking up instruments and learning them to a decent level within a day or two.
But then about 5 years ago, i found out about this cool amazing wonderful thing.. called composing.
I guess i just never realized that somebody has to write all that stuff that i played. I downloaded finale (back when I ran windows) and tried to write something, i can't remember what it was now, but it sounded pretty cool to me (when i was 10)
Now 5 years later I still like composing, i'm not too good but I have some general grasp of how to write stuff. I can't really put big cool sounding chords down because I have never learned them, so what I write is mostly basic and simple sounding, mostly in minor keys 'cause i like 'em (and when you compose it's what you like, who cares what everyone else thinks? =P)

So now i'm nearing 16 and just 2 more years before college where I have to decide what I want to do for the rest of my life (or at least most of my life) and since I'm pretty good on Bassoon and piano and sax I might have a good shot at some sort of scholarship (but even if I get one I'm going to Julliard, no matter what it takes [okay maybe i was kidding, but we all gotta have dreams, right? XD])
I was pondering the question of "What do I want to be when I grow up?" the other day on our 10 hour drive to the Lake of the Ozarks, and I think that what I really really would LOVE to do is compose. I don't care if I become the next John Williams or if I just write small short pieces for solo piano or if I write orchestrations that the Symphonic Orchestra plays, I want to write music for a living, and, if I don't make anything from it to actually live, I'm sure I could get a job performing somewhere. (But it would be cool to be known like some of those big composers, e.g. John Williams, 'cause he will be in his late 80s I believe once I get outta college XD)



SO, after that big long life story (which will probably not turn out that long, it just looks long in this typing thingy) I come to my question: How do you make yourself known?
I'm sure I'll be a decent composer, have have a lot more knowledge at least in composing (i'll be taking music theory next year) but once I get into college, how do I make myself known to the rest of the world (or at least the state) so people might think about hiring me?

My ultimate goal is to write for some TV show, doesn't matter what I would just love writing for a tv show.

and, like I do in just about every thread i make, I have no idea how to bring it all to a close, so... i'm done


-Smart.A1ec-
Hmm, seems you have some options out there. I think the best choice for you would be to pursue something more practical for a living. I mean go ahead and be that computer geek (hey, you got to get the means to feed yourself and finance your musical activities first) BUT don't give up on your musical aspirations.

Look at it this way. It's an uphill battle to compose for a living. You'll need to have a good network of people and connections to improve your chances of success. If you look into the business side of it (and I think most would agree) that getting your compositions out there costs money. Unless you have good financial backing, you'll have to make sure that any time you try to get a work out should be worth the buck. So go ahead and have that perseverance but make sure it's within practical means.

Making a living as a performer might be easier, especially if you're very competent. Since you can play the bassoon, you might as well stick it out as a bassoonist. If I were to make an estimate (rather inaccurate one), there might be 500 pianists to a bassoonist so I could be easier to make a successful career being a bassoonist that a pianist (unless you're Lang Lang or Cecile Licad or Rubinstein).

Among your options, the easiest (and most stable) way to make a living would be computers. What's more than that, you'll have an advantage by being a computer geek and a musician. It's also a fact that there some distinguished composers in history had "day jobs" besides being a composer. Let me give you some examples:

The Russian Five had day jobs. For example, lexander Borodin was much more known as a chemist (he described himself as a "Sunday Composer").

Iannis Xenakis was an architect.

Charles Ives had a great career as an insurance executive.

You see, it's a possibility that you can have a "day job" yet be prolific as a composer. I myself have a day job but I haven't quit on composing and trying to improve my technique on musical instruments and other musical activities. Who knows, you might end up having both careers.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Jul 9 2008, 1:45 AM

ahhh theres no room in he
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Let me make something clear here:
My third thing I've "always" wanted to be isn't exactly true, there are MANY other things I wold love to do, I just put down programmer for the sake of simplicity.
Among the top few things I would want to be (excluding musical things) Programming isn't exactly one of my top 5, (honestly my mind went blank when typing my first post so I just put down something I would consider doing)
One thing I would love to do is be a commercial pilot, e.g. UPS or FedEx.. the problem with this is you are gone all the time, my neighbor is a pilot for UPS and he is home about 30 days out of the year.
Another thing that has always fascinated me was foreign languages. Before I discovered the saxophone (I was already playing piano) and really got into music I wanted to learn every language in the world and e a linguist, until I found out that translators make TONS of money (about $1 per word) and that seemed like a lot of fun, and, pretty easy if you think about it (just repeating what someone says). But, once again if I am constantly on the go being a translator there's no time to compose.

Those are my top two things up until about two years ago when my life in music took off. Actually, now that I think about it, everything seemed to happen perfectly, had I gotten the saxophone I have (my dad's old one) just a few years earlier, I would have gotten bored of it, never joined the local city band, never would have gotten into middle school my eighth grade year and (if i was absent this one day) my high school band director wouldn't have asked me to play the instrument I've always loved: the bassoon.
Wow, funny how things just.. work out.


anyway, I think I should spend some time writing down all these options.. but if I want to make a living from composing, then by gum I will do it (wow never said by gum before XD ) just watch me!
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Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
To express anger when I stub my toe, I yell "SHIT", not "the position of the step lying at an obscure angle made my toe to swell at an alarming rate causing bruising and my anger towards the situation."
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Jul 9 2008, 2:30 AM

Corbin The Violist's Avatar

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Read this:

Letter to a young composer

(New York Times)


"Catch-22 for Composers: You Need Another Job to Support Yourself"
(The composer of so-called serious music is perhaps the most neglected of all artists today. To begin with, his potential audience is minuscule. Then, too, the chances of having his works performed are severely limited. Record sales are most unlikely and public recognition and acclaim are all but out if the question. And so -- not surprisingly -- avant-garde composers often stick together and commiserate.

In the following exchange of letters, a young composer named David Maslanka, an assistant professor of music at the State University College in Genesco, N.Y., and holder of a National Endowment for the Arts fellowship, sought the counsel of a noted, older colleague, Michael Colgrass, the New York composer and lecturer.)




Dear Mr. Colgrass:

I have listened to your "As Quiet As" and feel a certain affinity with its musical language and its esthetic premises. My intuition suggests that you, possibly more than other people, have wrestled with the question I am about to ask.

Why is it that you go on writing music? The answer, obviously, is that you love it, but as a composer among composers I feel myself to be a shrub in a forest of trees. My voice is lost and will stay lost except for an accident of fate.

As a composer among people, I feel an oppressive indifference not only to my possibly obscure art (it seems clear enough to me), but to the musical and, indeed, the intellectual experience as a whole. I have dealt with the problem essentially by ignoring it. Have you found any better answers?

Sincerely,

DAVID MASLANKA

Dear Mr. Maslanka:

I think the most important thing a composer must do is decide if he is a composer. That doesn't mean he has to decide if he's good, but, rather, if he's that funny and rare kind of bird who has to sit on branches and sing. It's a difficult decision to make because once you've committed yourself to it most people will think you're irresponsible -- this includes your parents and even your best friends, including the musicians -- because we are not, in fact, supposed to be composers.

What we are expected to do is teach music and compose in our spare time. The Doctor's degree is supposed to be our real symphony, the only qualification that counts with many people. It's like a union card. Once we attain that, we are expected to join the academic community and develop a reputation by composing on the side. Since teaching (and the committee meetings that go with it) is so demanding, there is no spare time -- or what there may be is filled with the wrong thoughts. So instead of composing we write treatises for music journals, and enter into the publish-or-perish syndrome. Each of us tries to come up with some idea or method so we can gain the status of other great composers whose methods have become a basis for teaching, as Hindemith's and Schoenberg's have.

Now, all of this has nothing to do with composing. Composing is finding what you are musically and being it. It takes time to find it in yourself, a lot of work goes into that, a lot of living as well as writing. Once you get a finger on what really makes you different from others you start really composing for the fist time. The feeling is immensely satisfying. I think it is the deepest fulfillment an artist can have. What this means is that you've taken on what e. e. Cummings calls "the awful responsibility of being yourself."

So the first and most important thing to do is arrange your life so that this search is possible, whatever that may mean to you. They don't tell us about this in music school, so it's a rude awakening to encounter it out of a clear blue sky, because what it means, in effect, is enduring a life of insecurity. This is the dilemma, the Catch-22 of the artists: You can't be secure as an artist unless you're free to work and find yourself, but the life necessary to that kind of work is one of economic insecurity.

But this is true only for a while, because as you mature and find ways to live, to make money, to discover what your needs are, you become more confident as a person and as an artist. This basic human confidence is important. Because, after all, though you may potentially be a great composer, you may also be only a good composer or a very good composer. All these are valuable, so you can't answer the question about your own value by deciding on the degree of your artistic merit -- you have to first decide your value as a person. That must be your base in
life, and once that's right then everything you do will be right, for you.

What also follows from this is something I consider very important -- the kind of friends and close relationships you have. I think being with the wrong people (wrong for you) can have the most depressing effect on a person -- devastating for an artist. I have hundreds of acquaintances, but I select very carefully those to whom I would express my innermost thoughts. I respect myself and won't tolerate for a moment the kind of negative and deprecating attitudes that are common among so many composers. In fact, I spend very little time with composers, or other musicians, because when I'm not composing I want to talk about other things and get outside myself.

I see the composer as a person not separate from life and community but indigenous to it. How to bridge the gap that has developed between the artist and people is the biggest challenge I know, but I find that the more I reach out to people the less indifferent they are to the artistic experience. So the responsibility to overcome indifference is mine, too, and is a way to keep me from becoming indifferent, which is the deepest guilt an artist can feel.

Therefore, I don't believe it's an accident of fate that separates one composer from another, but an act of will. You decide what you want and need and then set out after it, do or die.

Sincerely

MICHAEL COLGRASS

Note: In the 25 years since this exchange of letters, David Maslanka has become a successful composer, and now makes his living from composing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is why I'm getting another degree right now in Mandarin.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Jul 9 2008, 11:45 AM

Composer who is Starving
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Wow. Thats a good letter with some great advice!

Philip Glass too never gave up his plumbers license apparently.

Any way, I do feel though that as a whole art music is left on the fringe of society. Especially these last few years. However, I think we are starting to adapt to modern tonalities. Or not, to my ears it sounds native now, but I am different then others. It is hard to say what will come of the future. I am very hesitant to go into music, but It is what I've wanted. I wanted to be a computer guys for awhile. Then I got disgusted with it and with the people in the business that I met. They weren't the type of people for me and I had a affinity for open source, which would have meant little money any way.

I will figure out a job path though where I can still pursue my love of music. Another option is to move to Europe where art music and the avant-garde are somewhat more accepted than in America, here everything is about aesthetics.

America = land of plastic, and you have to take this into account its about what it sounds LIKE not what it IS
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