Dumb Sibelius Question

Disclaimer: I'm used to writing in sequencers/by ear and have only recently switched over to standard notation. Also, excuse the sloppy writing in the image.

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how to notate an arpeggio where each note is sustained. For instance, in the attached image, I would like the first three notes to be held for the duration of the measure. I'm not completely sure how this would normally even look and in Sibelius the only way I can make it happen is to use 4 voices, in which case I end up with a crap load of rests. Any tips for an ignorant guy like myself?

For which instrument are you writing? If it's guitar or a similar plucked string instrument, you can just write "let ring" (ctrl+l, I believe) over the first three notes), but on a piano, you would have to instruct the performer to use the sostenuto pedal and hold down the first three notes. I can't currently think of a not-sloppy way to do this (perhaps it's really simple, but I'm no expert on piano notation, seeings as I don't play piano), but I'm sure that a wiser member on this forum can (or at least would have a better idea than mine).

(I used a lot of parenthesis in this response).

Originally Posted by spherenine

For which instrument are you writing? If it's guitar or a similar plucked string instrument, you can just write "let ring" (ctrl+l, I believe) over the first three notes), but on a piano, you would have to instruct the performer to use the sostenuto pedal and hold down the first three notes. I can't currently think of a not-sloppy way to do this (perhaps it's really simple, but I'm no expert on piano notation, seeings as I don't play piano), but I'm sure that a wiser member on this forum can (or at least would have a better idea than mine).

(I used a lot of parenthesis in this response).

It's for piano. I had considered notating to use the sostenuto pedal as that seems to be the only way to play it that way anyway but when I looked up how to do that I kept reading that sostenuto is very rarely notated. I assumed that must be because there are other easier ways to do it. The closest thing I've found is in Debussy's Arabesque No 1 where he places a longer duration note touching shorter notes to notate that they're to be sustained. This seems like it would still be pretty sloppy to do with three notes in a row.

Maybe just put a whole note over each of the three notes using the Create-->Symbol command and put a note in the score or something. Still, that seems kinda dumb.

Your only real option is to place a sustain pedal marking (Create -> Line -> Scroll part way down the left-hand column) underneath the first three notes, like so. Anything else is going to look unreadable or un-pianistic.

Incidentally, use of pedal in the Debussy example you cited is implied both by the phrase markings and, to a lesser extent, Debussy's prevalent style.

Alternatively you could try putting a tie (tying to nothing) from the first three notes.
If you want them to be sustained by the hand (possible), then you should probably split it into 2 voices, and notate the chord the hand will end up holding.

Is what you want something like this (a passage from Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata)?

I think you just gotta write the actual note values you want and put each addition on as a new layer. (see cygnusdei's image). There's nothing wrong with that notation - it's not un-pianistic (it's all over the well-tempered klavier). Using sustain pedal notation wouldn't do it, I don't think, because that still implies that you take your fingers off the keys, and that would make it impossible to do the rest of the notes in any other articulation. I've never seen the "tied to nothing" notation in any music.

Actually, the "tied to nothing" method is what is refered to as "Ravel ties".
For the time being, I don't think any notation software does them in a satisfactory manner. And as far as I know, no notation programme does the correct playback of Ravel Ties without a great deal of dicking around behind the scenes.

The reason it's "all over the Well tempered klavier" is that harpsichords have no sustain pedal.
I see no reason to do anything other than pedal indications in this case, since this is a piano part.

I find the ties more fussy than useful, in this particular case, since you get a lot of notational element collisions.

You can almost always find ways to avoid such collisions though. Pedal might be fine, but it's still not the same. Playing such a phrase with pedal definitely makes it sound different than without and notational difficulties shouldn't stand in the way of your imagined music. I'd rather invent a notation for the sound I imagine (if really necessary) than write down a different sound because it's easier to notate.

Here are two examples that should work all right. The first one doesn't play back correctly of course, but the second one does.