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Old Jun 30 2008, 1:34 PM

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Fantasy Trio (Winner of Morton Gould award and Pikes Peak Young Composers award)

Hello everyone, I am an avid 15 year old composer and for my first post on this board I am showing you guys my favorite and most successful score. It is a trio for flute, cello, and piano and it is written in atonal style. Recently this piece won a Morton Gould ASCAP foundation grant as well as a Pikes Peak Young composers award. I would like to hear your comments.

Here is a link for the mp3

Fantasy Trio

Thanks.

I have attached the score
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Old Jun 30 2008, 3:34 PM

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a quick note so you can correct your score: it's viol-O-ncello, not viol-I-ncello.

and both the flute and cello go above the piano part in a chamber setting.
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Old Jul 1 2008, 8:30 PM

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I enjoyed it! You show a lot of maturity in your treatment of rhythms as motives, and contrapuntal ideas. It's very detailed, and pretty well notated. I do worry about a few things such as the pianist reaching into the piano and out again in enough time. Have you had a performance, or chance to hear it at least being read?
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Old Jul 1 2008, 9:09 PM

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Nice, I'm not a fan of atonal music but I can see you put a lot of work into this. I also won the pikes peak young composers competition this year, but in a different category, and I guess a different age group. *High fives ttmaster.* I guess you don't live in Colorado, but you shoulda come down here for the concert, ya bastard. You would have gotten the distinct honor of hearing me try to sing. Anyways, congrats. Next year we are in the same category! (You are going down.)
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Old Jul 2 2008, 1:55 AM

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I don't think I can objectively comment. I think the profusion of tuplets are forced/pasted on/unconvincing, and I absolutely despise the constant annoying grace notes in the flute part.

I'll leave it at that. Congratulations on winning!
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Old Jul 2 2008, 6:28 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint-wwrr View Post
I think the profusion of tuplets are forced/pasted on/unconvincing, and I absolutely despise the constant annoying grace notes in the flute part.
Flint, both the tuplets and the grace notes were inputted for textural purposes. In much modern flute music, wide dissonant octave leaps of grace notes are used in excess and I too wished to use this effect that I enjoy. This effect provides a somewhat otherworldly effect that I felt could be benefited from in a "Fantasy." Also, the various types of tuplets used maintain a constant imbalance of rhythm which would also provide to the dream like ambiance of the piece. Anyway, i am grateful that you listened to the piece and I thank you for commenting.
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Old Jul 2 2008, 9:45 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttmaster2004 View Post
Hello everyone, I am an avid 15 year old composer and for my first post on this board I am showing you guys my favorite and most successful score. It is a trio for flute, cello, and piano and it is written in atonal style. Recently this piece won a Morton Gould ASCAP foundation grant as well as a Pikes Peak Young composers award. I would like to hear your comments.

Here is a link for the mp3

Fantasy Trio

Thanks.

I have attached the score
I really liked it for a while but it lost me as it began to resemble, rather than atonal music, a pastiche of tonal excerpts.

It felt as though you put in less effort into the latter parts which is a shame given the quality of the earlier parts. Good effort overall, and very imaginative.
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Old Jul 5 2008, 10:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
I really liked it for a while but it lost me as it began to resemble, rather than atonal music, a pastiche of tonal excerpts.

It felt as though you put in less effort into the latter parts which is a shame given the quality of the earlier parts. Good effort overall, and very imaginative.
Thanks for commenting. I am actually in the process of revising the piece and I will have your comments in mind.
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Old Jul 7 2008, 11:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Dan Gilbert View Post
Nice, I'm not a fan of atonal music but I can see you put a lot of work into this. I also won the pikes peak young composers competition this year, but in a different category, and I guess a different age group. *High fives ttmaster.* I guess you don't live in Colorado, but you shoulda come down here for the concert, ya bastard. You would have gotten the distinct honor of hearing me try to sing. Anyways, congrats. Next year we are in the same category! (You are going down.)
What events do u plan on submitting pieces to?
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Old Jul 9 2008, 4:31 AM

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Another critique! Yay! As I said before on your Concerto for Orchestra piece:

“I am not a fan of atonal music. In fact, I am an avid opposer to atonal music simply because music is supposed to be pleasing to the ear and not derived from mathematical formulas. (I refer to serialism and the atonal/polytonal movement of the recent decades.) So thusly, I did not like this piece. It's the style, not necessarily the notes themselves that are bad. And of course some people like that kind of stuff and may tear me to shreds for it, but I say again, I do not like atonal music! So keep that bias in mind while you read this. You have been warned.”

Same applies here.

HOWEVER! This is not a truly atonal piece. It’s more of a “free tonality,” a style that is actually becoming quite popular with older composers who previously were completely atonal and are now adding tonal elements. This piece is mostly based on modes and specific pitches. You may not notice it at first glance, but upon further inspection, the melody, and the whole piece as a result is “freely tonal.” A huge chunk of the piece is based on “F” oscillating with “F#”. If you actually removed all the dissonant notes in the piano, F major or minor chords could be implied. The mode sounded very Arabic with its sometimes major third and flatted 2nd. That’s a big deal in Arab modes that jump from b2 to M3. So I will say that overall I was able to relate to the piece. I think it may have been a tad too long and some of the repeats weren’t necessary. The most compelling thing I thought was the “chamber” feeling the piece. It’s not like most of my chamber works which feel like orchestral reductions (since large ensemble works are my forte).

I won’t be as extensive as my last review because you should know what to look for. Overall the score looks very nice and clean. The Violoncello should go in between the flute and piano. There are several unnecessary “loco” markings, an obsolete marking with the use of dotted brackets on 8va lines. In the piano I’m not too keen on the use of “normale” but I don’t think there is a better alternative. A lot of the grace notes are fine, easily doable on flute. Some of your quadruple stops in the cello might be troublesome. Consult a cellist on this, I don’t know that stuff. “Normale” is also not necessary after flutter tonguing. It’s an understood technique like tremolo on strings. And only 3 slashes, not 4 like sometimes in towards the end. There are also several ¼ bars being used for Grand Pauses. Get rid of them! Only use a whole bar rest. It’s annoying to see a time change when nothing happens in it. Some accidental problems like E#s and so forth. Fix them to make reading easier. Some beaming issues as well, especially with tuplets. Use secondary beams when connecting 16th note triplets to 8ths. Don’t separate them like Sibelius suggests.

Bar 15: getting a Low D fortissimo?! Yeah right! Transpose it up three octaves for true loudness.

Bar 28: “Barbaro”? I dunno about that. Might I suggest a word more commonly known or better yet, an English term? Also “separate marcato”? Marcato means heavily accented and staccato. Separate is unnecessary.

Bar 55: Why optional flutter tongue? It is actually easier to flutter tongue than to trill in that range. And don’t make it optional. Give the players choices then it’s not your composition anymore.

Bar 85: Again, don’t give the flutist options. The upper octave is easily doable by a pro. Leave it there. If it’s an issue, the flutist would omit the grace notes before transposing them.

Bar 115: “Liberemante e lugubre”? Why not try “Liberamente e lugubre” The problem with that tempo marking is there is no tempo marking. It explains feeling but not speed.

Bar 123: More like “Moderato”

Bar 161: “Fuocoso”? Try “Con fuoco”

Last Bar: The sudden minor chord seems very out of place. I would not be so obviously looking for a cadencial ending. End with a bit hit of loud open fifths or a tritone leading to a fifth. But I think only a fifth or a unison will bring closure to the piece given it’s tonal characteristics.

There you have it. You can read my elaborate conclusion on the other thread. I wish you well in the future. I wish you well and good luck in your future compositional endeavors!

[End review]

Oh, and I want to add this mostly for all composers as a small rant. (In no way directed at you Sidd.)
There is a common misconception that winning an award like Morton Gould means that you’re a great composer and that you’re perfect. [Buzzer!] WRONG ANSWER! Let me tell you a story. One day, two brothers decided to expand their start up company and advertised the new job openings. They did so well because over 1,000 applications flooded into their tiny office on the 10th floor of a building downtown. They struggled for days reading through application after application and resume after resume. After a week one brother got so annoyed that he said angrily, “That’s it! I can’t take it anymore!” He picked up over 900 of the applications and threw them out the ten-story window onto the street. His brother protested saying, “What the heck did you do that for?! Those could have been some of the best applicants!” His brother replied pointing to the remaining applications on the table, “Well, at least those were the lucky ones!” True story! And don’t think for a second it’s any different at ASCAP.

[End rant]
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