Fugue ME!!!

MY GOSH. Ok, so ive started writing a fugue...and i have NOO background in counterpoint, so as I'm doing this...im completely tripping myself out that it is actually kind of coming together.

Just take a look, and tell me if I am on the right track. Clearly it is not up to the stamina of someone who has studied counterpoint...but do you like it?!?! IM FREAKIN OUT HERE...I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!??!?!?!

Forasmuch as the fugue is by any measure an advanced counterpoint technique, it helps to have at least a little background in the art of counterpoint before you attempt one. Starting out trying to write a fugue is a bit like trying to ride a motorcycle when you've never ridden a tricycle before.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, the answer to your question is: no, you're not on track...but you're close, and what you've got is pretty cool. It just needs to follow some rules in order to be what you'd like it to be.

Not all imitative counterpoint qualifies as a fugue. What you've begun with is a canon at the octave, then when the third voice enters you don't follow suit. In order for this to be a fugue, the second voice must enter in the dominant (G minor in this case), or less commonly in the subdominant (F minor); then the third voice enters in the tonic again (C minor); if there were a fourth voice, it would enter in the dominant or subdominant again, 5th voice tonic, etc.

I started a little fugue using your subject, slightly altered at the end (that last octave jump isn't advisable...makes all kinds of things tricky, especially in a keyboard fugue, which this seems to be). If you'd like to see what I did, go HERE; I'd have posted a jpeg, but for some reason YC's system keeps wanting to shrink it down to a thumbnail almost. Notice how the second voice enters in the dominant, though I chose to change the first interval by one degree of the scale, which is permitted and is called a "harmonic" statement of the subject; I chose to put it in the bass because this subject is just rangy enough to need some space between the parts, and just transposing what you had in the second voice up would have created collisions. Then the third voice enters between the other two in the tonic. I tried to preserve some of what made your treatment so interesting, like the upward scale in the first voice during the second voice's statement, though I did it a step lower.

Now you don't have to do what I did, but you do need to follow the tonic statement/dominant answer rule.

Check out the link, and if you need some other pointers, here's a link to my article here on YC, kind of a crash course in writing fugues: A Crash-Course In Writing Fugues

Good luck, and good work.

Thank you J.Lee. Im glad you actually offered some advice. Haha.

Right...first step: Dont Write a Fugue until you have learnt counterpoint.
I liked your analogy, and I definately won't be writing a fugue.

I havent had time to read your entire post, but will certainly look back on it.

Thank you so much

Goodridge -

First, bravo on your first foray. I listened to it a few times and you have an excellent ear and instinct. I myself have not approached the fugue though I have studied counterpoint. Just feel I need to get some more basics of 3 and 4 part counterpoint and imitation before I embark on fugue. Also as Lee said you are starting a little big -- even at university (undergrad level) they start up off with one year of two and three part counterpoint before emvarking on fugue.

So, the good things about what you have -

a) a subject which suggests diminished and dominant harmonies and the the chromatic g g flat (not f #) f provides a very good source of exploration

b) Some nice voice motion - that is voices moves in opposite motion while another is in parallel.

c) despite breaking many rules of 16th and 18th century counterpoint, it "worked" often as you avoided most of the time obvious parallel 5th and octave motion

Now the bad news (some of which has been covered by Lee) -

a) What you wrote is a canon with one episode of truly 3 part contrapuntal movement. The counterpoint is mostly 2 part. Notice around measure 8,9, 10 and 12 that it sounds more like two voices as you usually have one voice moving with a different note value while the other two voices move in parallel motion and/or same note values. Measure 11 though does sound more a 3 part canon.

b) There are several errors - depending how strict you are. One example is the parallel octaves from beat 3 of msr 12 to beat one of msr 13. Now, parallel octaves are allowable in a few cases of counterpoint but with three voices moving downward, 2 of them skipping down by more than a step and onto the strong beat gives the impression one is moving from c to b flat via octaves (even though you have c-d and b flat - b flat, approaching octaves and fifths in similar motion in 2 or more voices often creates parallel fifths and octaves).

Some ideas for study -

a) the counterpoint lesson thread is very good

b) SSC is teaching lessons using the Bach 2 and 3 part Inventions. Use them! If you want to hear and see and "feel" 2 part counterpoint, look at the second 2 part Invention -- probably one of the most brilliant examples you will ever find on this scale.

c) Finally, I encourage you to go for it because this will enrich you vocabulary and improve the quality of your music. It is especially helpful when a work seems to loose flow - sometimes it is due to a counterpoint problem (eg too much similar motion in a few parts or the texture changes too quickly, etc) I know that when I wrote a movement for woodwind quintet (which is incomplete) the study of counterpoint helped alot. If you want to see it let me know -- it isn't stellar but it would give you an idea.

This early....I cant go into deatail with the mistakes, but there are a few. What J. Lee and composer have presented are good points to jump from.
I like what you have, its just "technically" wrong, which is weird to say because in music there should be no right and wrong, but in a fugue there is.

Good Luck!

On an entirely irrelevant note, I think "Fugue ME" or even "FUGUE ME!" is a great title for a piece. (Refer to Nikolas's post about title talk). Actually, I think I might use it so everyone please note this is now copyrighted.

Originally Posted by ablyth

On an entirely irrelevant note, I think "Fugue ME" or even "FUGUE ME!" is a great title for a piece. (Refer to Nikolas's post about title talk). Actually, I think I might use it so everyone please note this is now copyrighted.

HEY! I COPYRIGHT IT FIRST...COZ...I MADE IT!

Ok...no. i dont care You may steal it off me.

Thanks guys for your help Its a shame studying is usually defeated by Procrastination *shakes fist*!! WHY?!?!?!?! *cries*

But...yea, when I actually get a chance to study composition properly (unfortunately, I have no teachers of composition...Springfield sucks in the music depo)...i will tackle fugue...and yes, I realise there were many rules haha...i just dont know them.

Ta.

Goodridge, there must be some impulse within you that is prompting you to try your hand at this kind of imitative counterpoint, and what you have is pretty neat...I had fun trying to make it work. Did you look at the way I handled it (just as an example)? Did you understand what I meant? I hope you won't put this aside...I get the feeling that maybe now you think it's too much trouble with all the rules, but once you get beyond the exposition where the rules are rigid, things open up a lot.

Anyway, I hope you'll keep trying. One of the best ways to learn is by doing. If you wait until you think you have everything lined up that you need, like a proper teacher, you may end up waiting forever.

Just to get off topic,

I'd fugue you Mister, I miss your emo hair.

J.Lee Graham: Haha, I still havent even read your post...incredibly sorry. will do so now.

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I will one day stop procrastinating and I will sit down and actually compose 'properly' is there is such a thing haha. About lining everything up, yea you have a good point. But I just know that having someone there to guide me through things will just be that little bit easier. You are right when you say 'you learn by doing'. I have attempted a few fugues in the past...which I will not post...and this one, though incorrect in its rules and whatnot, is due to trial and error. This is the way I learn. I hate doing the wrong thing...part of people pleasing...a character trait of mine ....so then I pick up on how to do the right thing soon enough.

Anyways...enough crap haha, thanks for the help.

Corbin: You are such a noob face haha. Thank you for the compliment though. And...I still have emo hair. The photo you can see is about 2 months old. In that time...my hair has had a full on spasm growth..so its long. Egh. I laughed when I read that BTW.