The Highly Educated Beast from The Oriental East

Originally Posted by jujimufu

It still isn't avant-garde, and since you're not taking this seriously enough, this is the point where it stops being funny.

jeez.. Who the hell care if it isn't Avate-garde? And why do you keep pestering me about it? Just leave it alone if you're so annoyed with it.

*observes that Juji likes going around telling people that what they're writing isn't Avant-grade*

*Saiming pretends to be Juji*

It is Avant-Garde

This is pretty fun, some nice things going on. Its not really my style like at all, but overall it was fun and I'm glad I took a listen.

Of course it matters whether it is avant-garde is not. You posted your piece under this category, and since your piece is not avant-garde, it doesn't belong here, and a) it gives the wrong impression of what avant-garde pieces are to other people who don't know what avant-garde is (like yourself, as you have yet to prove me wrong) and visit this thread, and b) it lowers the quality of the forum itself, since other people do bother writing avant-garde music (or writing whatever they like, really, which *could* be described as avant-garde).

So yes, it is annoying. And it is most annoying to insist that I shouldn't care. On the contrary, you should care more.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Of course it matters whether it is avant-garde is not. You posted your piece under this category, and since your piece is not avant-garde, it doesn't belong here, and a) it gives the wrong impression of what avant-garde pieces are to other people who don't know what avant-garde is (like yourself, as you have yet to prove me wrong) and visit this thread, and b) it lowers the quality of the forum itself, since other people do bother writing avant-garde music (or writing whatever they like, really, which *could* be described as avant-garde).

So yes, it is annoying. And it is most annoying to insist that I shouldn't care. On the contrary, you should care more.

Just leave it be.

Well it is electronic if it's intended as a midi file.

Juji, do you really think that the admins intended this section for people to post music they thought was breaking new ground? Then no one would post here, because they would seem arrogant. Yes, the term avante garde originated that way, but I'm sure the admins intended for this section to be for pieces that fall under the more generally accepted use of the term.

It's acceptable to use the term avante garde to describe a lot of things - movies where all the characters are 800 pounds, blank canvases in the museum of modern art, weird unnecessary independent films, and also things that are strange for the purpose of being strange. The latter is what Franzman meant, I think.

I don't see why it makes Franzman ignorant and passive to disagree or not care about your literary definition of the word Avante Garde.

What we see here is a clash of personalities, really.

I do not really want to go further into detail, since I respect Simon's wish. Let us just let it be

To Dan Gilbert: I've said many times that I do not approve of the "avant-garde/electronic" forum, firstly because of the grouping of two relevant but independent elements, and secondly because as a forum it is unique in that it attempts to characterise all works inside in terms of style, while all the other submission forums are about orchestration (major works, ensemble, choral/vocal, piano music, incidental music etc).

And as you said, I don't believe many composers from in here would be described as "avant-garde". What if I feel my music is simply normal music, and you feel it's avant-garde? Where should it be placed?

Which is why I insist on people submitting their pieces by orchestration, and not by style. Electronic music should have a category of its own, but avant-garde has absolutely no place there. It's just irrelevant to the rest of the forums.


To Gardener: of course it would be. But is it?