The holy grail of notation programs!

Technology is a tool, not the end product.

Does no one understand what I'm saying ?

I mean a program that's everything at once! No use for sequencers ....and I know it's just a tool, I've only ever been talking about it as a tool .

Er, perhaps if I explained it like this:

In some amount of years there will be a notation program, one like Finale or Sibelius, where you notate the music, let's say a piece for string quartet. The computer plays it back and sounds as if it were a real quartet reading it for the first time, albeit a bit more precise (or not, perhaps they'll slightly incorporate human errors). The composer would then change aspects of tempo, articulation, dynamics, expressions, rubato, etc.

Today this is possible with sequencers, yes, but I'm simply talking about a program that combines all of that, samples, sequencing, and notation and that is easy to use, and affordable. In short: the holy grail of notation programs. Er, I should have mentioned that I was talking about notation programs .

Edit: yeah, I changed the title.....

is there even a song?

.....what?

Why did you ask that ?

Originally Posted by Verdi_Lver

In some amount of years there will be a notation program...sounds as if it were a real quartet reading it for the first time...
The composer would then change aspects of tempo, articulation, dynamics, expressions, rubato, etc.

And you think this is a good idea?



Composers compose....performers perform. Composers trying to control any/all aspects of a performance is a disaster waiting to happen.

Did I ever say this was a good idea ? *sigh*, I merely wanted to discuss what the consequences would be, or if it's possible, I dunno. Why do people seem to misunderstand everything I say ? I'm just saying that I think that's what will happen, or at least that's what they're aiming for.

I wonder why you say that it's a disaster waiting to happen, though. Certainly it's already done in sequencers, and the results are decent, at least.

Originally Posted by Verdi_Lver

I merely wanted to discuss what the consequences would be, or if it's possible.

I wonder why you say that it's a disaster waiting to happen, though. Certainly it's already done in sequencers, and the results are decent, at least.

It's done with sequencers, yes. BUT, then the composer is dealing with a drastically finite set of possible variables. The samples (I assume here, I don't know - correct me if I'm wrong) only offer a few possible sounds.

There's an impossible number of variables (plus x number of derivatives) that performers spend YEARS trying to learn about and understand - let alone master. Composers opening that can-of-worms are in for a rude surprise. There's SO MANY infinitely subtle things a performer controls - things they often aren't even aware of - that affect the performance.

I, for one, would NEVER consider trying to understand the nuances of viola bowing techniques alone - forget trying to control and perfect EVERY aspect of that instrument's performance. Now do that for every instrument in the orchestra.... A daunting task. Perhaps there'll be a decade or so where NO new music is produced - just tweaked.

A daunting task? Hmmm, well the composer wouldn't tweak it directly, the program would. I'm not saying he would perform each piece, I'm saying the computer would take care of the technical aspects while the composer would manipulate the more "human" aspects, musicality issues (in this situation it's more a matter of simulating the human mind rather than sound). So yes, programming it would be daunting, but taken in small to large steps over a period of years makes it very feasible. Like it or not, all signs point to computers becoming insanely powerful, and would be able to handle the small details involved with manipulating the sounds. When? I can't say when. I guess 15 years, but that's perhaps a bare minimum.

I'm not thinking in terms of today, this is essentially predicting the future, but it's not unreasonable. I don't like it anymore then you do, but I think it will happen

Originally Posted by Verdi_Lver

...well the composer wouldn't tweak it directly, the program would...take care of the technical aspects while the composer would manipulate the more "human" aspects, musicality issues

Okay...

Originally Posted by Verdi_Lver

Like it or not, all signs point to computers becoming insanely powerful, and would be able to handle the small details involved with manipulating the sounds.

I agree with you - with enough time and money, anything is possible. I'm sure, in the distant future, that a computer program will accurately simulate EVERY variable affecting a performance (from the cellists right-hand grip, to the hydration level of a clarinet reed, to the amount of condensation inside the 2nd-valve of a silver-plated euphonium held by a female with a wooden-leg).

I also think this stuff will be quite genre specific. I expect classical to be the first to go by the way-side. Especially with orchestral playing, the emphasis on accuracy and precision make a lot of that music quote easy to synthesize - hell, aren't we seeing major film scores produced solely on the computer? I give commercial classical-type music another 7-years.

Pop music is another genre we're already seeing a trend away from live musicians.

Some jazz and improvised musics (I'd like to believe) are immune, and will never be replaced. The human spiritual/emotional interaction is too important.

Well, yes, I was talking purely from a stand point of completely notated music. You didn't have improv. in mind while reading my posts, did you ? I would hope not, as obviously that would require much more than a notation program.


Since you brought it up, though, what about when humans are simulated? Say a computer could act exactly like a human....pass the Turing test, for starters . I wonder if then improv. could be incorporated.