How do you obtain success in music?

I am currently reading a collection of primary documents related to Beethoven. Last night, as I was reading, an interesting thought stuck me.

To me, it appears that the great composer never once faltered in his ambitions to write music. He seemed to have always held himself in the greatest esteem. Even while he was not particularly well known to the world of music, he treated every piece as if it was a god send, and would often throw tantrums when his music was not played to his likings. In the words of Georg August Griesinger:

"When we were both young, I still an Attachè and Beethoven only renowned as a pianist but little known as a composer, we met at Prince Lobkowitz's. A gentleman...began a conversation with Beethoven...

'I should like', said Beethoven,... 'to be relieved of all bargaining and haggling with publishers and find one who would decide to assure me a fixed annual income for the rest of my life, for which he would have the right to publish everything that I compose; nor would I be indolent in composing. I think that Goethe has such an arrangement with Cotta and, if I am not mistaken, Handel's London publisher had one with him.'

'My dear young man,' the gentleman said reprovingly, 'you should not complain; you are neither a Goethe nor a Handel, nor is it likely that you will ever be; such spirits are no longer born.'

Beethoven gritted his teeth, thrrew a derisive glance at the gentleman and said nothing further to him. Later he expressed himself rather violently about the effrontery of the man.

Prince Lobkowitz tried to bring Beethoven back to a more amibable mood and said in a friendly way,...'My dear Beethoven, the gentleman did not mean to offend you. It is a well known fact that most people do not want to believe that one of their younger contemporaries can achieve as much in the arts as the older ones, or those who are dead or who already have made a name for themselves.'

'Unfortunately true, Serene Highness,' answered Beethoven, 'but I do not like or want to have anything to do with people who refure to believe in me because I have not yet achieved a wide fame for myself.' "

After reading this, a truth about Beethoven became clear to me. Never once did the composer ever question his place in the world of music. At the time he decided to become a composer, he went full steam ahead, and never once looked back.

Did he really know where he was headed? Or, was he simply the most arrogant person that ever lived? Neither question appears to have a clear answer. One paticular fact appears quite transparent. The case with Beethoven, as well as most other great composers, is that from an extremely young age they were all constantly immersed in music.

Does being exposed to music at such a young age make someone's personality so intertwined with music that it becomes their sole means of expression?

A more articulate question would be this: Do you have to be born into music to succeed in it? If no, aside from the elements of hard work and education, what does it take to 'make it?'

An important part of getting there is knowing where to get. What should your music be like when it is where i needs to be. I don't know if Beethoven knew he'd write something like his grand fugue when he was sixteen. I mean this style-wish. But to get there requires to know where to get. Then there is how to get there. What is the difference between what you have now and what you have when you are "there". What steps do you need to take in, what order and is it even possible. This goes for everything you want to achieve i think. It's not the only way, but it surely helps.

Wheter or not you need to be born into music in order to be successfull has an asnwer of it has it's advandges but it's not "the only possible option". To be a very good composer you need experience and in your childhood you learn easier then in a later stage of life, but wheter you gain experience from your second upto you fourteeth or from you eighteenth upto you sixteeth is a minor difference.

So you need to be born with the possibily and work hard to make advantage of it. This train of though isn't statisticly underpind as well as the only truth but rather just optional ideas.

Unfortunately, acting like Beethoven today would only be counterproductive. It seems like the more talented you are, the more prone you are to being "arrogant". It's rather depressing really. I've had people refuse to listen to new pieces of mine simply because they "hate me", but then I hear that they asked for the piece from someone else. It would be wise to be diplomatic these days, yes, but also confident. Even while criticism and inexposure may occur, you have to be optimistic, faithful, and confident. I am, and at 16, I'm not doing horribly just yet. When I have to start making money for a family...heh, then I can see how far my composing will go

Mozart and Haydn believes each other was the best composer.

You really cannot fake a Beethoven type personality. It takes a lot from you and high expectations of yourself is tiresome. It really takes a toll on you, so if you are not naturally that kind of person, don't bother.

You want success in music? What kind? Personal success? Finical Success? Music Revolution? To make it in music, in my humble opinion, you need a strong belief in yourself that your music is good, despite what people say at times. You need to constantly be improving your style, and you have to be able to offer something that other composers cannot offer.

Take a look at a lot of the composers here. Their work sounds nice, but it's painfully clear that the majority are amateurs. You can bring their work to the general public and they might be fooled, but all in all, none of it sounds really different from each other. With a few exceptions, most composers sound exactly the same. Prevent that and still sound good, you'll do fine.

You don't. There is a conspiracy theory behind composers. It's all lies. There is no such thing as a composer. When the time comes, you'll find out (oh, and take the blue pill...)

You can read all about composers here

It's hard to compare success in composition in Beethoven's time to success in composition now for several reasons. The primary reason is that, simply put, the people paying for new music are not usually paying for the kind of music most people write.

There are exceptions to this, of course, but I would say that most new music enthusiasts are NOT neo-Romantics. This means, for the hordes of people that are writing in the harmonic language of 1600-1800, they're going to find a very hard time trying to stay afloat. Why pay for someone's bad imitation of Mozart when most Mozart is in the public domain? etc.

The second reason, unfortunately, is that we no longer have a culture that truly supports the fine arts. Instead, the "ivory tower" institutions (Universities, conservatories, "arts groups", cultural societies, etc) carry the weight of most of the classical music world on their shoulders. If you want to write music "for the public", you'd be better off writing pop.

Sorry if this seems like a cynical view, but It's as accurate as possible. Unless you either meet the right people or compromise your integrity, composing as a living can be very difficult. Your best bet would to either become a resident artist or endowed artist from a university or conservatory. It usually requires teaching as well, but you'd be getting paid to create, and you'd have the school's resources (music collection, printing/copying, software, etc) available to you. To try to achieve this, however, you truly need to develop your own voice. For many people this won't be very realistic, since it will require acknowledging the advancements of the arts and culture after the year 1850.

Oi, touche...

I was about to apologize, but I'm not going to. I write music not for fame, but because I enjoy what I do, I want to help build up the repetoire available for neglected instruments, and I want to make new music that is accessable to students.

I, however, am a violist, and as such fit the stereotype of a bad composer.

Originally Posted by MattGSX

It's hard to compare success in composition in Beethoven's time to success in composition now for several reasons. The primary reason is that, simply put, the people paying for new music are not usually paying for the kind of music most people write.

There are exceptions to this, of course, but I would say that most new music enthusiasts are NOT neo-Romantics. This means, for the hordes of people that are writing in the harmonic language of 1600-1800, they're going to find a very hard time trying to stay afloat. Why pay for someone's bad imitation of Mozart when most Mozart is in the public domain? etc.

The second reason, unfortunately, is that we no longer have a culture that truly supports the fine arts. Instead, the "ivory tower" institutions (Universities, conservatories, "arts groups", cultural societies, etc) carry the weight of most of the classical music world on their shoulders. If you want to write music "for the public", you'd be better off writing pop.

Sorry if this seems like a cynical view, but It's as accurate as possible. Unless you either meet the right people or compromise your integrity, composing as a living can be very difficult. Your best bet would to either become a resident artist or endowed artist from a university or conservatory. It usually requires teaching as well, but you'd be getting paid to create, and you'd have the school's resources (music collection, printing/copying, software, etc) available to you. To try to achieve this, however, you truly need to develop your own voice. For many people this won't be very realistic, since it will require acknowledging the advancements of the arts and culture after the year 1850.

Some very good points there. I'm just not sure about the "no longer" having a culture to support the fine arts. It was always "ivory tower" institutions that supported the arts, be that nobility or the church. The number of truly independant artists was extremely sparse. (Beethoven was pretty much an exception there, being able to make a living without being employed, like Haydn or Mozart always were.) And people like Wagner would never have been able to write and perform the big stuff they wrote without the support of wealthy sponsors.

Also, it's not quite accurate to say "the fine arts" in general. There is a large market for contemporary visual arts, and it has become a very economic business, in constrast to "contemporary classical" composition which has only a very small market. Which, in my opinion, has beside the drawback of not making much money many positive effects too, as art is immediately endangered the moment it becomes too market-driven.

Regardless of whether universities, the church, the nobility, or the free market support composers, the problem remains that it's almost impossible to be "independant".