I hate pop music

But POP, by default is not about super heroes of performance. Not anymore. The time of Hedrix and the other guitar gods is through (thank gawd). There is no need for any pop performer to play the perfect instrument, perfectly. Not if they deal with the studio most of the time!

Write a pop song: Doesn't matter if it's playable or not. Studio techniques are there
Write a "classical" piece: It HAS to be playable, and if difficult even better, since it's a show off for the performer.

big, big difference.

BTW, Yanni????

Originally Posted by nikolas

Write a pop song: Doesn't matter if it's playable or not. Studio techniques are there

Serious artists don't use "studio magic" to fudge parts.

Originally Posted by ThePianoMan121

Serious artists don't use "studio magic" to fudge parts.

Oooooooh really?

I can recall quite a few artists who were very serious and were quite popular, but all of their music was made with 99% "Studio Magic" as it's called

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

Oooooooh really?

I can recall quite a few artists who were very serious and were quite popular, but all of their music was made with 99% "Studio Magic" as it's called

really? names please.

*edit**

my chauvenism is showing...
"serious" to my eye equated with "not pop".

And YES, I KNOW there are some popular musicans who are quite serious about their work.

Let me just go on record as being a lover of certain types of pop music, including the Rolling Stones... especially early ("Aftermath" album). Is Blues Pop? Love Blues (Howlin' Wolf, Lightnin' Hopkins, Blind Willie Johnson, John Hammond Jr., etc etc etc). This music does not seem to adversely affect my classical listening.

There does happen to be one kind of music I do detest... Merengue as played today in the Dominican Republic. Same 2 chords hammered away ad naus. I think of it as music for drunk people (no, this is not a general comment on the wonderful Dominican people!). As a frequent visitor to the DR, the loud, inescapable Merengue has ruined many a fine beach day. So I can relate to your feelings... that is, I know what it is to viscerally "hate" a certain type of music. Yes, it is tempting to allow this negativity to lead to a judgement upon those who love Merengue... I guess they are just in touch with their primitive selves... much like lovers of certain repetitive ethnic rhythm music. But I'll take African drumming over Merengue any day!

There are many classical musicians who unapologetically love certain varieties of pop (I don't think anyone loves ALL pop, just as no one loves all classical. I can live without Padre Antonio Soler, and Bruckner, to name a couple.)

I hear genius in my preferred Pop and Blues artists to the same degree I do in classical artists. Not because of structure or any other technical aspect. Simply because their work provides a totally absorbing musical experience.

There seem to be a lot of arguments relating to "taste" here, and it just cannot be quantified. It is expected that young people would discuss this, as their taste is still being formed, and new discoveries can elicit passionate bias, positive and negative, along with the urge to convince others. But with experience, we learn that we cannot deny the subjectivity of Art.

One might simply declare, "I hate Pop music!" and leave it at that. I mention "the same 2 chords" in relation to Merengue. But it is conceivable that there may be another type of music that utilises "the same 2 chords" in a manner I would find utterly enchanting. I just happen to... well... hate Merengue with a purple passion! But you are permitted to love it... I wish I did!

Originally Posted by ThePianoMan121

Serious artists don't use "studio magic" to fudge parts.

You've got to be kidding! For 2 reasons!

1. Again we go about naming artists! Serious vs non serious. Again? Didn't we go through this in the last 14 pages?

2. You mean to tell me that 99% of pop records (CDs) are the band going in, playing together, going out and producing the album as is? Or maybe there is a bit of layering, a bit of effects, a bit of pro tools, a bit of... everything. Any pop album that I know, has gone through 1000s (!!!) of waves to reach that result, inclduing mastering. You mean to tell me that "serious artists" don't use plug-ins, or hard drive recoding, or computers, and play/sing along the band, in one take and take it all home and leave, right?

I would assume (Robin?) that jazz artists might be doing that and bravo! to them, but jazz, exaclty like classical music is made to be played live!

Originally Posted by nikolas

I would assume (Robin?) that jazz artists might be doing that and bravo! to them, but jazz, exaclty like classical music is made to be played live!

You'd be surprised. Most will use a 'live' setting, recording the whole ensemble - x number of tracks, and mixing from that. But, some great sounding studio records are the result of soloists splicing the best bits from multiple takes; punching in to fix wrong notes or tuning.

It's a bit lame, and I don't agree with it, but it does happen.

Originally Posted by nikolas

2. You mean to tell me that 99% of pop records (CDs) are the band going in, playing together, going out and producing the album as is? Or maybe there is a bit of layering, a bit of effects, a bit of pro tools, a bit of... everything. Any pop album that I know, has gone through 1000s (!!!) of waves to reach that result, inclduing mastering. You mean to tell me that "serious artists" don't use plug-ins, or hard drive recoding, or computers, and play/sing along the band, in one take and take it all home and leave, right?

That's not what I was referring to. Artists might not be able to nail each song in one take, and might combine a few takes to get the part "perfect," but if they're at all decent, they can actually play the parts they write well. Otherwise seeing them live would be a miserable experience.

You mention, "the older I get". I wonder how old you are? I used to think I hated pop music, but the older I get, the more I realise it's just that I don't like it. I was angry because nobody understood me, and I didnt have any friends who shared my tastes musicaly. Now I finaly realize that hating it isn't worth the effort, and that I don't need to wish that thier music didnt exist- Live and let live.

PS- classical musicians DO get help from studio magic as well you know...

Originally Posted by Macar

PS- classical musicians DO get help from studio magic as well you know...

though, honestly, you have to admit, considerably LESS so than pop musicians.

Toss a string quartet on a stage and they SHOULD sound the same as they do on their latest CD (unless the accoustics of the hall are incredibly dreadful).

Classical musicians use "studio" help to make the accoustics of the recording better, or to correct little performance imperfections here and there, since we expect a CD of classical music to be technically perfect.

But if a classical musician needed the amount of tweaking and "behind-the-scenes magic" that too many pop musicians require, they would never get hired... EVER.

Some pop bands don't even SOUND like themselves unless their recording has been processed to death in a studio environment by teh best producers and techs in the business.

I can give you one shocking example: When the movie Fame cam out, the theme song was a HUGE hit. Irene Cara sang the song in the the film, recorded in studio, obviously.

When the song was nominated for an Oscar that year, she went on stage at the ceremony to sing it... and it was a monumental disaster! Without the back-up of all those studio techs and over-production, it sounded like pure crap.