I hate pop music

YouTube - radiohead - paranoid android

*dances with a poppish flavor*

Perhaps what the he means is that music that is popular he hates . I mean, there certainly is great pop music...but a lot of what is popular might not be what's good. I mean, considering today's pop culture I would tend to agree that too many people are idiots, and I doubt anyone else would disagree there (unless you are one of those idiots )....it all depends on your perspectives, I suppose.

I dunno, I'm kind of weary of what many people listen to these days. There's good stuff in the contemporary pop world, but it seems like we have to wade through crap on the surface to find it . Or at least I do ....well, I do live at a university...and in the States....hmmmm....

Railing against popular music and scapegoating it as the downfall of classical music is probably one of the main reasons for classical music not being as popular these days. I think if you really feel that popular music is to blame then you should find creative ways to inject classical music into it. For instance, I like to take samples from classical pieces and turn them into hip hop tunes. Maybe if people who wouldn't normally listen to classical music heard it in a framework that they're comfortable with they'd be more likely to look into it at some point. Both forms have plenty of room for existence in our world and also have their own specific merits.

This kind of reminded me of a Coolio track where he used Pachelbel's Canon to build his beat around. The song was exceptionally popular and I doubt you'll find many people who aren't familiar with that classical piece or who don't enjoy it. Hell, that guitarist who did a rock version of the song enjoys the title of most watched YouTube video ever.

EDIT: Ah, I just thought of an amazing pop tune that I think you'd be hard pressed to write off as too simple or lacking depth. Any Elliott Smith fans here? I have an obsession with I Didn't Understand.

Originally Posted by JoshMc

Railing against popular music and scapegoating it as the downfall of classical music is probably one of the main reasons for classical music not being as popular these days.

Nah, classical music ostracized the average listener by getting too complex and introverted for its own good. Jazz did the same thing.

I doubt that Steve who works at Burger King cares that musicologists, classical musicians, or music academia are 'railing against' pop music. I doubt grade 9 student Tiffany in Omaha subscribes to Perspectives of New Music or reads essays by Adorno. It just a bunch of musical elitists soapboxing about the downfall of classical music, no one outside the airtight box you guys (classical folk who bitch about pop music, no one in particular) built for yourselves even pays you any attention.

I think.

Also, to inflict some more spectacular pop music - dig the harmonies, the counterpoint at 1:50. Stunning! And (holy shit) they did it without Autotune and teams of Swedish songwriters
YouTube - It's So Hard To Say Goodbye To Yesterday

Originally Posted by robinjessome

Nah, classical music ostracized the average listener by getting too complex and introverted for its own good. Jazz did the same thing.

I doubt that Steve who works at Burger King cares that musicologists, classical musicians, or music academia are 'railing against' pop music. I doubt grade 9 student Tiffany in Omaha subscribes to Perspectives of New Music or reads essays by Adorno. It just a bunch of musical elitists soapboxing about the downfall of classical music, no one outside the airtight box you guys (classical folk who bitch about pop music, no one in particular) built for yourselves even pays you any attention.

I think.

Also, to inflict some more spectacular pop music - dig the harmonies, the counterpoint at 1:50. Stunning! And (holy shit) they did it without Autotune and teams of Swedish songwriters
YouTube - It's So Hard To Say Goodbye To Yesterday

Oh I completely agree. I think a big part of the reason that it got so focused on complexity and introversion is because there was this elite attitude early in the 20th century where composers liked to think that their music was far superior to pop music and so didn't have to cater to the common person.

Wikipedia isn't always the most accurate so I take this with a grain of salt but what it says about Aaron Copland's early work makes a lot of sense (link). Jazz is another good example. Chick Corea was all about avant garde jazz early on until he realized that it didn't connect with the average person. He apparently came to the conclusion that the conversation between artist and audience was essential and, in my opinion, found a lot of balance between complexity and accessibility. He appears to be in the minority when it comes to people who write complex music. There's this sort of selfishness that says that it doesn't matter if the audience is affected by the music that I think leads to the introversion that you're referring to.

I know I've had many discussions with Varese fans about this. It seems that if the composer is so complex that only a few people get it, or think they do, then it's great and society is just on some sort of cultural delay. It turns into this big F-you to the common person who could care less about what type of cadence a composer just used or the theory behind serial pieces. You really can't blame people for shunning classical music when this is the stance of the artists.

I think I might have gotten off track there. But yeah, I agree with the introverted tendencies being the culprit. I just think those tendencies come out of this hatred and sense of superiority over the often simplistic styles in pop music.

Isn't this overlooking the obvious?

From about 1700 onwards, classical music was the pop music of its day. To take one example, had it not been for the captive audience desperate for auditory wallpaper, Mozart would almost certainly have failed in his efforts to become a freelance composer. We'd still be gasping when someone played a third or broke from organum. Most of the music classical afficionados admire would never have been written if its composers had failed to embrace their zeitgeist. Arguing that the some aspects of the musical status quo are stagnant and uninspired is all very well, but in light of precedent one should accept that the present is simply one aspect of a constantly evolving musical tradition. As long as music is changing, I am happy, even if I admit to hearing little or nothing in much modern music.

Originally Posted by Zetetic

Isn't this overlooking the obvious?

From about 1700 onwards, classical music was the pop music of its day. To take one example, had it not been for the captive audience desperate for auditory wallpaper, Mozart would almost certainly have failed in his efforts to become a freelance composer. We'd still be gasping when someone played a third or broke from organum. Most of the music classical afficionados admire would never have been written if its composers had failed to embrace their zeitgeist. Arguing that the some aspects of the musical status quo are stagnant and uninspired is all very well, but in light of precedent one should accept that the present is simply one aspect of a constantly evolving musical tradition. As long as music is changing, I am happy, even if I admit to hearing little or nothing in much modern music.

I've always wondered how much correlation there really was with classical music in say, Mozart's time, and popular music today. It always seems to me like pop music is a new phenomenon that came about because of technological changes. It doesn't seem at all like it would be quite like classical music back in the day, which seems like it was relegated to those with money, or like folk music from back in the day, as it seems like folk music never enjoyed the type of popularity that music today is capable of achieving. I could be completely wrong though since I've never found any information where someone had actually looked into this.

YouTube - Don't talk (put your head on my shoulder) - The Beach Boys

one of Mr. Wilson's many gems

and feel like adding another from Pet Sounds

YouTube - The Beach Boys- I Just Wasn't Made for These Times

mind you he received much praise from Leonard Bernstein

As I expected, those youtube examples of supposedly good pop music did not impress me at all...

True, Brian Wilson is slightly more talented than most pop songwriters and he does seem to show an original harmonic and melodic language within the conventions of the pop song format. I also think Paranoid Android is definitely one of the better and more creative pop songs out there. But the other examples really didn't have very much musical substance. They struck me as typical, uninteresting and conventional pop songs.

Come on, you would be seriously (and painfully naively) fooling yourself to believe that that kind of pop music has the same artistic merit and depth as this music:
YouTube - St.Matthew passion bwv 244 conducted by gustav leonhardt
or this: YouTube - Beethoven Symphony No.9 - Bernstein 1989 (part 1)
or this: YouTube - STRAVINSKY : Rite Of Spring - (V.Gergiev) '07 (1/2)

Look,

Honestly.

This thread is BORING! It's no use trying to persuade anyone with what you think are arguments! Same wise there's no way to even come close to persuading you to take a different stance about things.

So, you go on blaming pop/rock/everything about the decline of contemporary music and close your ears to the miracles of pop/rock/jazz and the rest of us will continue to be completely spoilt brats that do enjoy the occasional pop and feel that the problem with contemporary music lies elsewhere...

How do you feel about this then?