I Miss the Gold Ole Days...

I think somebody posted a version of 2001 with the original Alex North score on youtube. I'll post here in a second if I can dig it up/

Originally Posted by SSC

Very famous example of temp track stuff is 2001 space odyssey. Ligeti was mad, hahaha, but the movie is awesome and I think he ended up liking it too. Kubrick just left the original stuff in. That is, no actual music was written for the film since they just used what was on the temp track instead. Thankfully. I'm not sure how the story goes but I think it's something like that.

Actually, slightly erroneous.

Kubrick had NEVER intended to use any music other than his "temp track". In this particular case, the temp track was actually the intended final soundtrack.

HOWEVER, there WAS music written for the film. An absolutely brilliant soundtrack was composed by Alex North. He had been hired to score the film, but Kubrick had not told anyone that he had no intention of using any music other than his temp track.

If you are interested, Jerry Goldsmith produced a recording of North's score to 2001 (an incomplete recording, as North found out about Kubrick's plans before finishing all the score preparations).

And yes, a couple of living composers were rather surprised to hear their music used in the film, with neither their prior knowledge nor permission.

Originally Posted by QcCowboy

And yes, a couple of living composers were rather surprised to hear their music used in the film, with neither their prior knowledge nor permission.

I'm suprised there wasn't a lawsuit!

YouTube - 2001 title and dawn of man with Alex North

Alex North...Sometimes very harsh to listen to, but overall, a fantastic composer!

Originally Posted by in rainbows 109

The thing you have to remember, Johnwilliamsfan, is that a few people on this board are kind of arrogant for no reason and talk out of there [sic] ass. You know the same people that bash these pretty damn good composers plagarize [sic] pretty blatantly themselves? It's true they do, so it's just kind of funny. I guess in the end you have to just realize that it's the internet and you can't really take everyone totally serious.

I wonder, how a brand new member can know so much about YC members?

It's just kind of funny...

Originally Posted by in rainbows 109

The thing you have to remember, Johnwilliamsfan, is that a few people on this board are kind of arrogant for no reason and talk out of there ass. You know the same people that bash these pretty damn good composers plagarize pretty blatantly themselves? It's true they do, so it's just kind of funny. I guess in the end you have to just realize that it's the internet and you can't really take everyone totally serious.

I personally think people are making a really big mistake by writing off John Williams' entire repetoire due to the fact that part of the star wars soundtrack sounded like the planets and the rite of spring.
Did you know that the 'Jupiter motif' from Jupiter in the Planet's suite, is actually in the Rite of spring towards the beginning?
However, James Horner actually does lift whole passages from neo-classical works. I'm not writing him off completely, but he has gone too far on some occassions.

Actually the Rite of Spring came before The Planets. Oh and guess what, in Saturn the bit with bells.... sounds a hell of a lot like a bit in The Rite of Spring. But really it doesn't matter if the overall effect is something completely different. I would say that it's possible to subconsciously write something very similar to music you have already heard, which is why a lot of music sounds similar...

I lurked for a while

That's actually kind of creepy...

But really it doesn't matter if the overall effect is something completely different.

That's not really the point of the thread. Mozart's 2nd movement of his piano concerto no.23 sounds an awful lot like one of the movements from Bach's English Suites (can't be bothered to find out again which one, but I bet you can google it). So what? It's got nothingto do with what film composers do some times (or most of the times, depending on the composer), as Qccowboy very effectively pointed out (some Pirates of the Caribbean also sounds like Mars from the Planets - Klauds Baudelt was working under a company runned by Zimmer, I think?).

Anyway, on the topic now:

I have nothing against atonal or contemporary classical. I enjoy jazz, jazz fusion, rock, metal, pop, world, techno, electronica, spiritual, opera... you name it.

That's almost analogous to saying "I have nothing against dairy products. I enjoy tomatoes, vegetables, fish, boats, sailing in the atlantic, playing n64... you name it."

Thus, irrelevant to what you're trying to say.

(We currently coexist with John Williams, Alan Silvestri, James Newton Howard, John Powell etc.)

We also currently coexist with Boulez, Birtwistle, Carter, Crumb, Sciarrino, Norgard, Vasks, Gorecki, Penderecki, and quite a few other people who deserve a mention in the list of internationally highly acclaimed contemporary (i.e. living - although I guess Stockhausen would still be in the list of contemporary composers) composers. From the style of your post I assume you know less than half of these names?

So, if you ask me, last time I said "I LOVE this piece of music. That artist is a true master.", that was hm.. when I listened to most of Varese's works, to Feldman's works (especially Coptic Light - incredible piece), when I listened to some works for piano and strings by Takemitsu (I totally loved Hika), when I listened to the Turangalila Symphonie by Messiaen, when I listened to his Quartet for the End of Time, or when I listened to Boulez's "Rituel in memoiriam Bruno Maderna". When I was listening to all the pieces mentioned, I was literally hooked on the music, fascinated by the soundscapes created (especially by Varese) and I instantly loved the pieces, set off to find what else a genius composer like them had composed.

So what am I? Am I a parasite in your little world? Am I the psychotic "modernist" who "pretends to like modern and contemporary music"? (I've heard people go that far... it's sad..) How come there are people like me, who can enjoy listening to, and can find "true masters" in contemporary music? Are we a huge mistake in the evolution of mankind? Are we supposed to naturally like Mozart and Bach, but dislike Schoenberg's atonal works or Scriabin's highly chromatic pieces?

To sum up,

Music isn't relative,

Well, it definitely isn't absolute. Music (art) is written (created/thought) within a historical and cultural context, and thus must be understood and heard in such.

...music is a life source.

That's at least debatable, as I replied to this other guy who said that Fluxus music is the art of all arts.

You know what, this topic further drives home my belief that the best music is balanced. Modern film music is too simple, modern concert hall music is too complicated. The balance is the hallmark of a timeless classic.

I agree with williamsfan in one respect; that people have forgotten the importance of a good melody. However people have also forgotten the importance of properly supporting the melody, which is why generally I am constantly dismayed by modern film music.

Edit: Zimmer got sued by the Holst foundation

I think it's hilarious how inevitable cat fights are on this site! LOL We're supposed to be intelligent young adults discussing musical topics... If we can't do that with respect for each other I may have to find a music site where people do... : (

Modern film music is too simple, modern concert hall music is too complicated.

That's blatantly biased and not representative of either genre (not so much on the film music, although most film music is not simple, it's just that it's a recreation of what has happened in the past, because that's what people buy and expect/want, including directors and producers). If I wrote a fugue in the style of Bach, it would still not be simple.

I think it's hilarious how inevitable cat fights are on this site!

To be honest, I think the rate of active fight-threads has been increasing lately, but I don't know why... I can't even remember seeing such huuuge threads with loads of people in both argueing sides, but unfortunately only one side has people with strong arguments, which is why after a while the only replies you get are of the "uh.. you're stupid, you're wrong, john cage sucks anyway" kind.

LOL We're supposed to be intelligent young adults discussing musical topics...

Go to Composer's Headquarters if you want to be part of the elite that doesn't fall to the level of having this kind of discussions