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Old Jan 5 2008, 9:29 AM

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I would just like to say...

..that I feel really sorry for classical musicians who seem to hate all kinds of music except for about 100ish years between 1789 and 1912. I have a friend who plans on playing the trumpet professionally (in orchestras) who thinks DEBUSSY is too much, too "weird". Debussy!! If it isn't Beethoven or Strauss or Bach etc she doesn't like it and is pretty snide when it even comes to a lot of "conservative" modern music. She hates jazz. She even threw a fit when I was trying to explain how I don't think Beethoven's even numbered symphonies weigh up to the odd numbered ones at all (except for No. 6, a favorite). She acted as if questioning the merit of any of Beethoven's work was violating some kind of Cardinal oath.

It's very frustrating, I couldn't imagine not listening to, well, every kind of music imaginable. Who has time to hate music? When are we as classical musicians going to drop the pretense and just relax and enjoy sounds. You know, I may listen to The Producers one minute, then some Brahms, then maybe A Tribe Called Quest. I haven't died yet. I have contracted some sort of fatal illness. I haven't coughed up one of my vital organs. It's okay to open your mind a bit, a promise you! I know I may be preaching to the choir a little bit on this board (even though I've even experience some of it here).

I think the one thing we as a society need to get over is this rather blatantly egotistical mantra of, "If I don't like something then it sucks". Let me tell you something, I can't stand the sound of country music, but you will never hear me bash it. What's the point? Country music has a very large fan base and has touched people for years, who am I to try and take that away from them. I can see the obvious merit in it, and I'm not about to question anyone's "talent" or the emotional effect of the music. Of course some of it is of questionable quality, but what music doesn't.

The mind set of musicians like the friend I described in the first couple of paragraphs unfortunately is not an isolated incident. I come across too many musicians with their heads up their ass. As an aspiring composer coming up through the American higher-learning system, the most important thing to me as I begin to write more and more, and get one step closer to entering the professional world is this..."How am I going to stay relevant as a composer/conductor/whatever in 21st century America". Because to be honest folks, I'm not interested in just waxing pretentious, because all that does is get you a dead end job at a no name university teaching Music Theory and running a "new music ensemble", and the cycle of pretentious academia continues. A lot of composers have learned from this. They work in different medias, whether it be concert hall, film or television, or theatre. Something tells me that our society is much more familiar with the music of John Williams or the music from the broadway production Wicked than Brahms, Mahler, or Ligeti.

I'm going to end this here before I start crossing into a world that is bigger than I, but I just wanted to express the concern about my trumpet player friend and the many classical musicians I've come across like that. Of course, jazz musicians are at fault too, but they are no where near as closed minded.

As a side note: I've always found it funny how the extremes of classical music seem to almost be at war. You have the "experimentalists" who think a concerto for cellphone and orchestra is a good idea, then you have the people like my friend who think music died with Brahms (who as history can now show us, was quite an arrogant ass, go figure?). Almost like our own little musical Democrats and Republicans, and in the middle we have the independents. People that embrace BOTH sides and don't belabor themselves with vitrol towards certain sounds. The composers who embrace this mentality nowadays are not surprisingly the most successful ones (ie: Corigliano)
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Old Jan 5 2008, 9:51 AM

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I would take it this is a response to the "I hate Pop music" Thread?

I feel the same way. It's all the same- music. Some just sounds different than others...

But what am I saying?? I'm going to repeat your entire speach. And for those of who that doubt my feelings, I only posted the way I did in the "Pop music" thread just to challenge the thread starter with these ideals, and see if he could see where I was going.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 10:39 AM

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*agrees completly with the first two posts*
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I don't mind people who hate Debussy. They'll all be burning in hell for eternity, which is a very entertaining prospect.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:30 AM

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Logically, pieces that are atonal, or end with dissonance, are unnatural.

That said, pop music (hate that term) shouldn't be compared with Classical Music (hate that as well....) nor Jazz.
The two reasons I despise contemporary pop, is the nonsensical simplicity, ignorance, and inpatients it implies (Note: not is. The other reason is the governance corporations have upon what it is.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:34 AM

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The funny thing is- Some people must like it if it is becoming a rising style to write in...?
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:39 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticWind7 View Post
Logically, pieces that are atonal, or end with dissonance, are unnatural.
ah, but logic and nature have nothing to do with "music"
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"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
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In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:40 AM

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I have no time for people with closed ears or minds... They are useless to me, and will fail miserably at any attempted musical endeavor. Maybe I'll let them mow my lawn.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:46 AM

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it's OK to preferences in music, as long as you understand that those preferences are nothing but a reflection of your own personal relationship with music.

I don't generally care for jazz, it's not a style that appeals much to me. But I don't have anything against it, nor have any negative feelings for it.

There are some jazz pieces that I REALLY love.

But I have so much music to listen to, at a certain point, I just can't listen to EVERYthing.

Yes, the whole "I hate" school of music criticism is sad.

Except for rap.. I hate rap.

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-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 11:47 AM

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Quote:
ah, but logic and nature have nothing to do with "music"
They have everything to do with music. Meter is a mothers heartbeat, tonality is physics. Atonality, is not physics. Dissonances, through physics requires a resolution, that, is natural.

I never said that I care not for atonal music (while I am dislike Schoenberg, I do like Pendereki)

Quote:
Except for rap.. I hate rap.
Can't stand it either, but I do appreciate the way the keep the "music" moving forward by singing behind the beat. The poetry, although I don't like the words chosen, nor the topics, they can still be sometimes well fitted.
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Old Jan 5 2008, 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by ArcticWind7 View Post
They have everything to do with music. Meter is a mothers heartbeat, tonality is physics. Atonality, is not physics. Dissonances, through physics requires a resolution, that, is natural.
Actually, no mother's heartbeat would go at the speed of some "tonal" music, so that's just a silly, feel-good, new-agey comment to make. It's balony.

And as for physics, well, that's also debatable. I don't think you'll get too many tonal composers admitting to using physics to define the course of their harmony.

But if it makes you feel better to believe these things, then go to it! Have fun.
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Those that understand, teach
."
-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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