IMSLP - International Music Score Library Project

UE link is down atm, but I've read it I'm sure. And I've also read the BBC article. I do follow the situation closely and you know it!

It certainly was easier to shut down the site, but not because of UE threats, but because of the additional burden! It's just too much trouble and I understand that! I've no idea if without the UE problem IMSLP would still go down but you need to realise that the UE is the... how's that in Greek??? Hem... δικαιολογία και όχι η αιτία. If I'm remembering correctly, cause I could be paraphrasing awfully!

Yes UE was, is and will be a bitch and they certainly were not nice, especially that idiot lawyer of theirs who wrote the letter this way. Still what did you expect?

My problems are two, as I said, and I'm quite clear about it:

i. All the world is accusing UE for the closure of IMSLP which is not exactly the case. Is it?
ii. Various other bullshit parties, like that Thor guy and the pirate Sweddish party, came and ATTACHED themselves onto the whole issue, and tried to battle copyright laws??!?!?! WTF?!?!?! And either way I do feel that copyright laws need changing and not having right expire 50 ot 70 years after the death of the composer, but that ridiculous guy was something else! Not to mention that he was corresponding to UE, who could very well have had mistaken him as a part of IMSLP, which is faulty!

UE had every interest in showing that IMSLP is ridiculous and amateurish, when it's not. But with 1,000,000 hits per day, you shouldn't have trouble proving that. And most libraries in the world, as well as BBC, CNN, etc (wasn't there an article in CNN as well?) The power of UE goes so far.

At least there is a reason to what they do.

As for IMSLP being closed right now: GREAT! I'M WITH THAT! I don't think you're lazy, I think that the job is enormous and wish IMSLP back, once it's the right time and the site is organised so that no arse company can sue you again. Isn't this what you're doing? If so BRILLIANT! Any arse coming and saying you're lazy is... an arse and wouldn't deserve even a post from you! As for the above post, it just felt like a kind nudge "We love you guys. We miss you... We really really miss you! COME BACK!", which I can't consider really bad.



This is NOT the right moment to have the talk about copyright laws. I'm all for the change, enen being a composer myself, but not now. Bring IMSLP back, shut everyone's mouth and then let the talks begun. I promise to be there, as I am now, and voice my mind (as I'm doing now).

And certainly the IMSLP situation was not purely IMSLP, anybody can see that. But the point is to have IMSLP back, legally (even if UE is not exactly right in any case! ). That's what's important for me. Too bad that I don't have time, but again if you need donations, let me know. That's the best I can do with my busy life...


EDIT: BTW, I heard from some idiot that there were ulterior motives, like having the library for yourselves, etc, but this is SO absurd and awful that I can't stand even thinking about it! That guy IS an idiot!

αφορμη και όχι η αιτία

I do understand what you're saying completely, but it's just that I insist that IMSLP didn't find an opportunity to close with UE's letter. It was already hard for them to maintain the site, I know, and it became so hard to do so after UE's actions, that they preferred to close it down (well, actually, just the founder of the site closed it down). It's not that they've always wanted to close down the site because of the burden and they just found an opportunity there. They had already started processes to recruit many more people to review submissions, so as to make it easier for them and spread out the burden of the work.

I. Everyone is accusing UE because, although they are not responsible (as both the IMSLP admins and UE state in their respective writings) for the closing down of IMSLP, they are the ones who caused it (don't misunderstand me: when I say "caused" I mean that, if UE hadn't taken any actions, IMSLP would still be running), and because of their attitude towards IMSLP, its members, and the open-source community in general. Comments such as "their behaviour and cynical writing is disgustingly untrue and biased" are all over the place (which are true), while I have yet to see comments such as "UE sucks because they are capitalists who want to take over the world" which are given any importance, at least within IMSLP's forums.

About the Thor guy, we can't control who joins the forums and who doesn't, that would violate the freedom of speech (unless that person violates any of the forum's rules). However, the swedish party thing is completely irrelevant, and someone completely irrelevant (who had nothing to do with IMSLP in its organisation) only mentioned it as a website which has gone against similar threats to UE's. Of course, this is another thing that UE misinterpreted in their article on the website, and they said that "someone from IMSLP even said something about organising a pirate party", which shows how fallacious and incorrect their comments/arguments are.


I had never thought that "I am becoming impatient" could ever mean "We love you guys. We miss you... We really really miss you! COME BACK!", and yeah, there are many people who truly want IMSLP back for good, and understand what has to be done in order for that to happen and can and DO wait patiently, and there are those who don't really understand any of the things we're discussing, and merely want IMSLP to get back so they can get their free scores.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

αφορμη και όχι η αιτία

γαμώτο... Κάτσε άλλα 3 χρόνια εδώ και τα λέμε! χαχαχαχα!

I do agree as well. It's just that people can be deceived and so on, so fourth... Thor was acting irrisponsibly and malharming IMSLP imho. That's all

And of course the human race is greedy as hell, especially the younger generations, what did you expect.

haha

Yeah, I guess it's true. But anyway, all we can do is ignore the guys who have nothing of value to say, ignore UE's false accusations, and believe in the admins and the open-source community Wikipedia has managed to stay up just fine, and I imagine it must be a LOT harder for Wikipedia to try and be a totally open-source site (it's not, but they get away with it with various tricks and licenses and stuff) with 2 million articles and a lot more visitors per day than IMSLP, so we should be just fine

Unless I'm misreading something or misunderstanding something, in both which cases, honestly explain to me. Cause I've been to the IMSLP forums plenty of times, and this is what I saw!

You must have gone there and read nothing except the people who registered AFTER imslp went down and UE who just to shout conspiracy.

Maintaining IMSLP was already difficult for the administration (especially the founder himself, being a masters student and thus having loads of other obligations), and it just became exponentially more difficult after UE sent its second C&D letter. After having read every single document relevant to the accusations of UE, I can say that their arguments are highly fallacious, and their threats are quite absurd, without mentioning their unbelievably rude and cynical towards IMSLP and, indirectly, the rest of the open source community as well.

That isn't really true either. Leaving the site up meant that IMSLP was still open for legal action (we were never actually sued). But if we left it up, there is a higher possibility that we would be (regardless of the fallacious arguments).

As for the "poor little IMSLP was shut down by giant evil cooperation", I think that's more evident in UE's writings than those of the IMSLP administration.

You have to remember, six months to a year prior to the first C&D letter, an IMSLP Admin (in the publishing business), received word via official publishing groups newsletter stating that European Publishers need to mass sue companies such as IMSLP so as to improve there profits, regardless of copyright.

The article on UE's website also says the following:

"Pretty strong stuff indeed for a story of a website which ran out of money …" Truth is, IMSLP didn't run out of money if you excuse the fact that UE demanded 200,000 Euros.

"A third administrator writes “We deleted Lucian Garban's reduction of the Ravel Piano Concerto (still copyright in Canada) no less than four times!” (same source) – which shows how powerless they were to prevent copyright violations."On the contrary it shows how attentive we are to copyright, not to mention alert.

"At the end of the day the administrators could not control the material being uploaded to their website, and admitted themselves (with a category labelled “non-public domain composers”) that they could not warrant for the legality of the music included."This is a pure and utter lie. the category "non-public domain composers" is for CC works published by the composers them selves or the estate of a dead composer. Anything else is removed. This isn't just a misunderstanding on UE's part. It is a lie.

Fact: Universal Edition Musikverlag - News - Aufstieg und Fall des IMSLP - Aufstieg und Fall des International Music Score Library Projects is propaganda equal to that of Nazi Germany, Stalin and the Bush Administration. (not comparing content).

As for IMSLP being down for the moment, imagine this situation: it's raining, and you want to go across a river which is far away from home, and you walk all the way to the river, only to find it's almost impossible to cross because of the rain, it's easier to just go back home for a while, until the rain is over, or until you can find something to help you cross the river, than to wait by the river still, hoping the rain will stop or that you will find something to cross the river with. That doesn't mean you've always wanted to go back home, and you waited for an opportunity to do so, but because it serves the final goal far better than staying by the river.

Actually, we are building a stronger boat to get across.

(not me, I can't do much right now, it's up to the admins)

You are doing a lot. Your post is doing a lot.

It certainly was easier to shut down the site, but not because of UE threats, but because of the additional burden!

The only additional burden was pending threats from other publishers and UE.

i. All the world is accusing UE for the closure of IMSLP which is not exactly the case. Is it?

Actually it is most European publishers, UE was just the first to strike.

ii. Various other bullshit parties, like that Thor guy and the pirate Sweddish party, came and ATTACHED themselves onto the whole issue, and tried to battle copyright laws??!?!?! WTF?!?!?! And either way I do feel that copyright laws need changing and not having right expire 50 ot 70 years after the death of the composer, but that ridiculous guy was something else! Not to mention that he was corresponding to UE, who could very well have had mistaken him as a part of IMSLP, which is faulty!

We continuously stated he is not connected to IMSLP in anyway. And they DID try and suggest he was affiliated regardless of whether we told them otherwise.

This is NOT the right moment to have the talk about copyright laws. I'm all for the change, enen being a composer myself, but not now. Bring IMSLP back, shut everyone's mouth and then let the talks begun. I promise to be there, as I am now, and voice my mind (as I'm doing now).

There is no problem in arguing copyright laws, just don't directly connect it with IMSLP. I can't stand copyright after death. I don't mind saying it and I'd defend it.

BTW, I heard from some idiot that there were ulterior motives, like having the library for yourselves, etc, but this is SO absurd and awful that I can't stand even thinking about it! That guy IS an idiot!

Dear god... That's all I can say.

And of course the human race is greedy as hell, especially the younger generations, what did you expect.

you know, Web 2.0 is pretty much because of youngerish generations.

If you want answers, start reading from IMSLPForums.org :: View topic - The return of IMSLP

Quate Wars FTW.

Quate Wars FTW.

haha

Yes, I agree with what you said Fortunately, the time until July will pass really quickly, as it always does when I'm in school I can't wait to see IMSLP up (btw, you don't happen to be one of the admins which are in touch with Feldmahler and are up-to-date regarding all the actions that Feldmahler is taking, do you?)

I've always loved this site. Its god.

You know what AW7? I get rather pissed off of you really! You come once a week over here, throw bullshit and then go back to wherever you are!

Yes I was in the IMSLP forum after it shut down, as most people there. But I didn't read only 1 thread, I read plenty and I have my own corrsespondance with UE if you want to know! Now if you want to keep assuming bullshit do so, in private, ok?

As for "this isn't true either... Leaving... blah blah"

Originally Posted by IMSLP

...Another major reason behind me taking the server down is the fact, which I have been made painfully aware of in the last few days, that I can no longer support IMSLP adequately. Rather than limping along and having to take down the site later on, I believe it is best to take the site down right now, so as to not waste the further efforts of IMSLP contributors.

WTF IS THAT THEN??!?!?!!?!?

It's ANOTHER MAJOR REASON! Read right? He cannot support IMSLP adequately!

So come again? Why was IMSLP shut down? Was it ONLY because of the threatening letter, or something else along that?

as for this:

Originally Posted by AW7

Actually it is most European publishers, UE was just the first to strike.

... :o

How do you know that? Since only UE stroke then... how do you know that? Any hard facts?

But never mind really "mate". In all honesty in your 300+ posts over here you have shown a less than nice way to post, so I won't be bothering any more with you.

As for IMSLP: I hope it's up again, whenever it can, no matter how much time it takes. I wish for it to be there, protected for whatever stupid companies, and I wish to be there so that anyone can take advantage of the unique and fantastic service it provides.

Need anything more from me?

Yes, I agree with what you said Fortunately, the time until July will pass really quickly, as it always does when I'm in school I can't wait to see IMSLP up (btw, you don't happen to be one of the admins which are in touch with Feldmahler and are up-to-date regarding all the actions that Feldmahler is taking, do you?)

Yes, I speak to him every day or two via IRC.

You know what AW7? I get rather pissed off of you really! You come once a week over here, throw bullshit and then go back to wherever you are!

I actually come every day. I post on topics I find interesting. If you would like me to post more often I can either post meaningless posts in threads that do not interest me, or you (meaning YC), can post more threads that I find interesting. Considering I don't want to perform option A, and B is unlikely, I prefer waiting. Also take into account that it has taken over a week for admins to find my above post and actually display it on the forums.

Yes I was in the IMSLP forum after it shut down, as most people there. But I didn't read only 1 thread, I read plenty and I have my own corrsespondance with UE if you want to know! Now if you want to keep assuming bullshit do so, in private, ok?

You must have gone there and read nothing except the people who registered AFTER imslp went down and UE who just to shout conspiracy. I posted twice (because I cannot edit), in the second edit this wasn't there. When I first posted I did not realise that there was another page. And the only post I saw from you suggested the topic I was relying to. Because I saw your other posts, I edited it out. I apologise for it being there, I do not endorse it.

WTF IS THAT THEN??!?!?!!?!?

It's ANOTHER MAJOR REASON! Read right? He cannot support IMSLP adequately!

So come again? Why was IMSLP shut down? Was it ONLY because of the threatening letter, or something else along that?

The reason he could no longer support IMSLP adequately was because of impending threats. Could you afford to keep a website running if it required going through an extremely expensive court case? No? It wasn't because he was inadequate. If UE had NOT done anything, the website would not have been taken down, and Feldmahler would have had adequate resources time and money.

How do you know that? Since only UE stroke then... how do you know that? Any hard facts?

You must have missed this: "You have to remember, six months to a year prior to the first C&D letter, an IMSLP Admin (in the publishing business), received word via official publishing groups newsletter stating that European Publishers need to mass sue companies such as IMSLP so as to improve there profits, regardless of copyright." Agreed it is not solid, and anecdotal, BUT, the person who said this is one of the high end administrators in charge of the IMSLP wiki.
UE's stance also creates precedence for further attacks. As US publishers to not consider IMSLP a threat, then that leaves European publishers.

But never mind really "mate". In all honesty in your 300+ posts over here you have shown a less than nice way to post, so I won't be bothering any more with you.

I hope you accept my apology for the first quote in my post. As for the rest of the post, I was mostly correcting jujimufu, or adding official information.

I apologise for my conduct. I came here expecting a typical internet forum (as are the many forums I have been with), yet I came in contact with inexperienced people (in regard to internet culture). I have been 'trained' in forums by these typical forums and YC does not follow the same netiquette as typical forums. The way I acted was the same as any experienced forumer would, however this is not the typical (internet culture) forum. I apologise.

As for news, there will be a blog coming, and a page about Branch Projects. I do know what these projects are, but I can not disclose them at this time, sorry.

Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely

I apologise for my conduct. I came here expecting a typical internet forum (as are the many forums I have been with), yet I came in contact with inexperienced people (in regard to internet culture). I have been 'trained' in forums by these typical forums and YC does not follow the same netiquette as typical forums. The way I acted was the same as any experienced forumer would, however this is not the typical (internet culture) forum. I apologise..

Appology accepted.

Now care to explain the inexperienced people (Internet culture wise), etc? Cause I've been on the Internet many years and on many music forums... Maybe you and I don't attend the same forums? But I'm really not sure how to take this particular quote.

BTW, if you check your post, it's a mess with the quotes. You might want to edit/fix it a bit...