January 2008 Monthly Competition Submissions Thread

Theme: John Brown's Body
Instrumentation: Horn and String Orchestra

The tune is widely recognised as "Battle Hymn of the Republic" with the lyrics by Julia Ward Howe. It is traditionally played at an allegretto in a key such as Eb or Ab. The theme isn't stated in this traditional fashion until the very end. I tried to make this piece sound as little like a theme and set of variations as possible, and that can be seen by observing the vast amounts of original material I've thrown in to complement and transition between 'variations'.

Just to clear this up, I can personally play the entire horn part quite decently, and I am only an amateur. The part is not meant to be easy. Also, although it may so "Solo" in the horn part, this is not a horn concerto. I treat the horn as part of the ensemble and give the strings much of the important material as well.

A brief synopsis...
• Intro and first variation: Theme put in minor, very grave. Theme in the horn.
• Second variation (at B): Theme still in minor, much more agitated, with an attitude.
• Third variation (at C): Waltz time, theme in major, put in basses, and then horn.
o From letter E to letter F is a transition comprised of original material, and bits of the theme.
• Fourth variation (at F): Opens with a mysterious 5/8 pattern. First thing in the violins is original material to help get the ear to tune into the odd meter. At measure 184, first violins have the theme in inversion, very obscure. Measure 213 is a reprise in a 4/4 march style with the theme in retrograde.
• Original theme and ending: (at I) Traditional tempo, key, and voicing; no changes.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

About me:
I am 17 years old I began playing piano at age 12 as my first experience in music. I taught myself how to play, read music, and after a year or two, I began composing. I now take lessons on piano and violin, and have taught myself a multitude of instruments, among them my favourite, the horn. I have no instruction whatsoever in music theory or composition aside from my learnings from the internet.

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PDF:
Variations_John Brown's Body - eSnips, share anything

(thanks to Marius for producing my .pdf, as my two PDF creators have somehow broken, oddly enough. They just don't work anymore. I can also thank Marius for the occasional advice here and there (which goes along the lines of me asking him, "Is this okay? How do I indicate this? Is this too abrupt?" ) )

Alright then... NO MORE ENTRIES. The competition is closed and I will post the result thread soon once all of the judges have sent me their Scores.

I will wait patiently for the reviews and results. I'd like to thank Morivou and the judges for taking their time to run this little event, and virtualshock, M_is_D, and Dev for actually submitting entries. I too am quite disappointed that more people didn't have the time to put in a little effort, it's a lot more fun to see what other people did with the competition theme and learn from them as well. Writing my piece was somewhat a learning experience already, and I am very interested to hear what the judges will have to say about it. I am sure I will learn a lot more from their comments and criticisms.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by EnigmusJ4

I will wait patiently for the reviews and results. I'd like to thank Morivou and the judges for taking their time to run this little event, and virtualshock, M_is_D, and Dev for actually submitting entries. I too am quite disappointed that more people didn't have the time to put in a little effort, it's a lot more fun to see what other people did with the competition theme and learn from them as well. Writing my piece was somewhat a learning experience already, and I am very interested to hear what the judges will have to say about it. I am sure I will learn a lot more from their comments and criticisms.

Cheers.

I certainly second that notion, and I look forward to doing this WHOLE process again, hopefully more successfully, in February/March.

I'm busy this weekend, but I'll try to get to it when I can.

Don't worry, there is no deadline for posting the results thread, unless there forms an angry mob outside of my house.

Ah... our pizza service is crap. I'll be damned if I ever thank one of those bastards. Which is hardly the case with Morivou, although his (and your) reaction to not sending a pager message saying 'thank you' is frankly exaggerated. I personally don't give a crap if people say thank you to me - most actually don't. In my opinion actions are what matters.

Yes, and saying thank you is a very good action of showing gratitude, since you can't bow, hug, pat or kiss someone over the net.

Without other people, it's not a contest.

So you do care about winning. A contest is about winning, and the rest of YC is about commenting and getting reviews. If you think you wouldn't have the inspiration without the pressure and motive of the contest, then you might as well write the piece with the contest in mind, and post the piece out of contest, if you're not interested in winning (i.e. it won't be graded, it will only be reviewed).

And you would have absolutely no reason of telling all the other participants to bluntly "go to Hell", if you cared only about the reviews.

I actually pretty much ignored your comment about the gradings. What I care about is the written comments, criticisms and suggestions about the piece, not some x/y numerical grade. I started ranting about the lack of participants after that post because it was when you made it clear it was a very possible reality that only a small fraction of the original contestants would be submitting pieces.

Again, see the above comment. If you weren't interested in winning, you wouldn't care about other people. What do you care if other people get their pieces reviewed or not, or if they eventually turned out to have/not have the time to finish their pieces? You submitted yours, it will get reviewed, eventually it won't get graded, so since you don't care about the gradings and you only care about the reviews, it's fine on your side. Your review would be the same no matter how many people submitted compositions in this contest, the only thing that changed with the lack of participants is not grading, and this is when you started ranting, which is again why I firmly believe that you do care about the grades more than you do about the reviews, in spite of what you say.

What I implicate is subjective. Too bad you saw it in a different way than it is.

Well, sometimes, when I say "no" I actually mean "yes". Now try and have a conversation with me and make sense out of it, as everything will be subjective. No, language is about communication, communication is about being as clear as possible and express what you want to say in a way that everyone would understand. If you want subjectivity, go write a poem. What your behaviour implicates is what I perceived of what you expressed. If you can't express yourself clearly, then it's your problem not mine. And if, indeed, you don't only care about yourself (as you said in your post above), then you should care about other people understanding what you want to say correctly, so you should take more care making sure we will understand what you mean.

And then you people would have to write new reviews... lame, huh? Especially when I didn't say thanks to the first one.

You could immediately write a new post asking for people not to comment on the older version, and that would have been fine. Or you could get the review of the older version, and get a grading of the newer one for the competition (the comments on the older version would apply to the new one, unless you corrected some of the things mentioned, in which case you should just ignore the particular points in the commentaries).

The reviews are all I care about and all I expect. The reviews, not the gradings.

I have expressed above why I don't believe that you are being absolutely honest with us in saying this.

They have. If my family hadn't manipulated a kid into dropping the idea of touring Italy in order for me to do it, I would have never gotten as far as I did. And that kid was nowhere near my level. What I've achieved so far in the artistic environment (not local, mind you: I've toured two foreign countries) wasn't by being nice.

Yes, be proud that your parents forced another kid into not touring Italy so you could. So, do you think about poisoning the other applicants at the university you will apply to so you will get there for sure? Life isn't about making everyone else worse than you so you can prevail, it is about working harder than other people and being better than them, so you prevail no matter what they do. If that kid was indeed as talentless than you as you say, then why would they choose it any way? If there was a big, vast difference between you and that kid, then they would have obviously picked you (they wouldn't have any reason picking that other kid, would they?). And if the difference wasn't that big, then what makes you believe that you deserved it more than him? Just because you think you do or your parents think you do, it doesn't mean you do. Maybe that kid wasn't as good as you, but maybe if he had gone touring in Italy he would have experienced music in a different way and it might have had a big impact on the rest of his life. What right do you have to force your way in front of other people?

All serious musicians I've met care about good playing, not good image.

Then they aren't serious enough, or you misinterpreted them. Plus, by not being nice and having things your way as you did with the Italy tour, you might get well along in the short run, but trust me, it's the honestly good people and the people with the best social skills (and also character) that will prevail in the long run. And that's true for the life as well, not just music.

Excellent. That's all I ask for.

That's all I was giving in the first place, but you started sending people to Hell.

Now, I would appreciate if you tried to stop this conversation here, because I think you are the kind of person who wants to win no matter how or what, and I know you will never stop replying to my replies and I will probably not stop replying to yours.

Also, in your profile you say you were born in 1993. I was born in 1989, and that makes me about 4 years older than you. Trust me, four years is a lot of experience at this age, and I would appreciate that if you kept that in mind when replying in this forum (I am not saying you are not intelligent, or talented, you may as well be smarter and more talented than me - I am talking about experience, which comes with time and work, not intelligence or talent). I don't think you would reply to me in a similar way if we were talking in real life, so don't assume you have the right to talk to me differently simply because you can write anything you want over the internet.

Es português, não? Queria poder falar português, mas infelizmente não posso Agora, estou a emitir-lhe os comentários logo. Adeus

Originally Posted by EnigmusJ4

I'd like to thank Morivou and the judges for taking their time to run this little event, and virtualshock, M_is_D, and Dev for actually submitting entries.

Funny you say that.

I'm happy there are only four entries, and that I only have two left to do. I'm totally swamped, and I am thinking about leaving for a little while so I can catch up with the rest of my life... Oh well, I have to do this first.

Haha, leaving? That is absurd, we are a cult here at YC. Once your in, you can NEVER get out!! HAHAH!!! jkjk.

OK then, let's end this useless argument once and for all.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Yes, and saying thank you is a very good action of showing gratitude, since you can't bow, hug, pat or kiss someone over the net.

Hey... next time you want a reply to a review (I use you in the plural) ask for it and you'll get it.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

So you do care about winning. A contest is about winning, and the rest of YC is about commenting and getting reviews. If you think you wouldn't have the inspiration without the pressure and motive of the contest, then you might as well write the piece with the contest in mind, and post the piece out of contest, if you're not interested in winning (i.e. it won't be graded, it will only be reviewed).

And you would have absolutely no reason of telling all the other participants to bluntly "go to Hell", if you cared only about the reviews.

Ah, the putrid smell of assumption once again hits me. Take a closer look at this: without other people competing, how can the judges effectively judge my piece with no term of comparison, be it good or bad? How am I even guaranteed a review if I end up being the only person entering? (Thankfully it didn't happen, kudos to Dev, Enigmus and virtualshock) And second of all, how depressing is it to see the initial enthusiasm over an activity dissolve into a situation where only a fraction of the people who signed up for it submitted pieces as expected? They're dishonoring what they entered in the first place. If I may rephrase, the only thing I care about *to myself* is the reviews. Especially since score formatting is a criteria, a numerical grade means little or nothing to me. It doesn't feel too good entering something with the deep desire of getting an impression for other people and see the other contestants not giving a damn; forgetting about the deadline and apparently not anxious at all to get an opinion of their work.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Again, see the above comment. If you weren't interested in winning, you wouldn't care about other people.

See above comment.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

What do you care if other people get their pieces reviewed or not, or if they eventually turned out to have/not have the time to finish their pieces?

I do - and again, see first comment - . But you assume I either don't care or I care cuz I want my precious gradings so I can be the best.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

You submitted yours, it will get reviewed, eventually it won't get graded, so since you don't care about the gradings and you only care about the reviews, it's fine on your side.

Yes, it is. If you hadn't misinterpreted what I said and started this argument I would have been out of this thread a long time ago.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Your review would be the same no matter how many people submitted compositions in this contest, the only thing that changed with the lack of participants is not grading, and this is when you started ranting, which is again why I firmly believe that you do care about the grades more than you do about the reviews, in spite of what you say.

You can keep your firm beliefs to yourself. No matter how many times I tell you you misinterpreted me, you still think I'm some kind of self-centered douchebag who only wants to win a contest in which victory would be meaningless. Would I even get a review if no one else entered? When I complained that with no other people it wouldn't be a contestant, you immediatly accused me of the same thing again. The whole review thing is dependant on the fact a certain number of people enters so reviews can have each other as terms of comparison so they can be objective. Without other people entering, I could have gotten a much more positive but potentially less constructive review than if other more talented people did as well.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Well, sometimes, when I say "no" I actually mean "yes". Now try and have a conversation with me and make sense out of it, as everything will be subjective.

What, you're saying I did that? Looks like you're the one not able to properly communicate. I made a statement that was misinterpreted, I didn't say something when I actually meant the exact opposite. That's not being subjective, it's being a liar. My statement wasn't subjective, the way you can interpret it is.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

No, language is about communication, communication is about being as clear as possible and express what you want to say in a way that everyone would understand.

Don't worry. From now I'll attempt to communicate in a way so that even the blindest misinterpreters will get what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

If you want subjectivity, go write a poem.

Why don't you do that? You're the one who has a knack for giving different meanings to words.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

What your behaviour implicates is what I perceived of what you expressed.

And I've been telling you for many posts that what you perceived was wrong - but you don't care to change your viewpoint.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

If you can't express yourself clearly, then it's your problem not mine.

Up until you started accusing me of things I never meant I managed to do that perfectly well.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

And if, indeed, you don't only care about yourself (as you said in your post above), then you should care about other people understanding what you want to say correctly, so you should take more care making sure we will understand what you mean.

As I said before - you're the first time I've had this "problem".

Originally Posted by jujimufu

You could immediately write a new post asking for people not to comment on the older version, and that would have been fine. Or you could get the review of the older version, and get a grading of the newer one for the competition (the comments on the older version would apply to the new one, unless you corrected some of the things mentioned, in which case you should just ignore the particular points in the commentaries).

So after I tell you countless times I don't care about gradings AND after you said there would be no gradings, you tell me I could have gotten the same old review with a new grading, which is something you said you weren't giving? Huh?

Originally Posted by jujimufu

I have expressed above why I don't believe that you are being absolutely honest with us in saying this.

And I have expressed above how I feel that opinion is completely erratic.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Yes, be proud that your parents forced another kid into not touring Italy so you could. So, do you think about poisoning the other applicants at the university you will apply to so you will get there for sure?

Looks like you misinterpret things everywhere.

1) Poisoning is hardly the same as simply convincing someone not to do something. It's manipulation, but everyone except the kids' parents agreed with it.
2) My parents didn't force or threaten the kid, they put the facts blatantly to his parents and they simply agreed.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Life isn't about making everyone else worse than you so you can prevail, it is about working harder than other people and being better than them

And I was better than him. But the parents didn't care their kid was worse: they wanted him to be the one to tour a foreign country. That's why they had to be convinced, by both my parents and the conductor, to drop the idea.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

so you prevail no matter what they do.

In this case, what they did was voluntarily give me the job. Sure, they wouldn't have done that if no one came to talk to them, but that doesn't make them any more right.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

If that kid was indeed as talentless than you as you say, then why would they choose it any way? If there was a big, vast difference between you and that kid, then they would have obviously picked you (they wouldn't have any reason picking that other kid, would they?).

The tour had been planned by the young people's orchestra years back, without the idea of having a child soloist. That kid offered to be that soloist and the conductor agreed. A few months later he heard me play and told my parents it would be better if I were the soloist instead.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

And if the difference wasn't that big, then what makes you believe that you deserved it more than him?

Considering the fact I didn't even try to apply for the job in the first place and got prefered over that kid anyway by a professional musician, I would say I deserved it more.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Just because you think you do or your parents think you do, it doesn't mean you do.

The conductor thought I did, and so did the Genoese who called me back on stage three times.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Maybe that kid wasn't as good as you, but maybe if he had gone touring in Italy he would have experienced music in a different way and it might have had a big impact on the rest of his life. What right do you have to force your way in front of other people?

I was better. Music is all I have in my life. I don't even know if that kid still studies the violin.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Then they aren't serious enough, or you misinterpreted them.

One of the most brilliant violinists I know never gives concerts in formal clothes. And that's just the beginning of it.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Plus, by not being nice and having things your way as you did with the Italy tour, you might get well along in the short run, but trust me, it's the honestly good people and the people with the best social skills (and also character) that will prevail in the long run. And that's true for the life as well, not just music.

I guess that's why I'm a student to the best violin teacher in the country, and incidentally his only student under the age of 21.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

That's all I was giving in the first place, but you started sending people to Hell.

See above comments.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Now, I would appreciate if you tried to stop this conversation here, because I think you are the kind of person who wants to win no matter how or what,

You've stuck to that idea so much it's almost funny.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

and I know you will never stop replying to my replies and I will probably not stop replying to yours.

Yeah, so try getting my point through your thick skull, or just drop the subject.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

Also, in your profile you say you were born in 1993. I was born in 1989, and that makes me about 4 years older than you. Trust me, four years is a lot of experience at this age,

I assume, then, you've had more than 11 years of experience in the field.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

and I would appreciate that if you kept that in mind when replying in this forum (I am not saying you are not intelligent, or talented, you may as well be smarter and more talented than me - I am talking about experience, which comes with time and work, not intelligence or talent)

See above.

Originally Posted by jujimufu

I don't think you would reply to me in a similar way if we were talking in real life,

What makes you think that?

Originally Posted by jujimufu

so don't assume you have the right to talk to me differently simply because you can write anything you want over the internet.

If someone came up to me in real life and made the assumptions you've made in here, I would have probably treated them worse.