Lesson with Mark

I have taken a look at your labeled motifs. Keep in mind that I would like for you to be economical with your motvic and thematic material. I want the economy of your motifs and themes to extend into creating material for the string orchestra to accompany and play against the Recorder solo. I want you to think about retrogrades and inversions of your motifs and themes. In addition, don't be tempted to always state your themes in completion at all times.

I played around with the counterpoint a bit of the ritornello material in the string orchestra. My aim was to get rid of some of the direct unisons and octaves. The canonic imitation is still preserved. You may decided to make changes or what have you. It serves as an example. In fact you may choose to keep it if you wish. I've attached my reworking of your ritornello in its A minor entrance.

Also, you mentioned that you want to create a piece that is Baroque inspired rather than an authentic Baroque piece. Therefore, instead of restating the ritornello in the key of the relative major (C Major) think about a different key that has less of a traditional relationship to A minor.

I've had a look at the viola line, and made a few small changes, having looked at your example, which I think may have killed the majority of the direct octaves.

I've tried it in B minor, which isn't too far away from A minor (2 #s) but still isn't one of the directly related ones, and it'll certainly make the harmony in the solo more interesting if I'm modulating that far.

Ok Mark,


1)I've take a look at what you've done. There are still two issues that I have. One is that the problem with a direct unison and the other is an implied parallel unison. I know I must sound as if I'm being picky about this, but you always want the best counterpoint possible for your piece. Seeing that this piece is to be modeled after the Baroque style I'm going to be picky about it. If "breaking" or ignoring certain voice leading or counterpoint rules were part of the unique design of your piece then I'd have no problem. But, I know that is not the approach you are taking and so I want to make sure certain issues are corrected so that they don't cause further problems in the piece.


2) I do like the ritornello appearing in B Major instead of the relative Major. Now, the other thing to think about is how do you plan to modulate during the course of the piece? Since this piece is Baroque inspired and not Baroque authentic having a different tonal layout will change how you approach and prepare for modulation to more distant keys. Yes, you can use secondary dominants of the distant keys you want to get to, but don't let your thinking stop there. Of course I will help you along the way when we get to those places in your piece.

3) Have you come up with any additional themese or motivic ideas for your piece?

Here is a version with the last direct unison corrected, I'm leaving the implied parallel octave as I'm quite fond of that bit and couldn't get round it without making it sound weird, and the parallel isn't that obvious, well, to my ears.

I've been thinking about my opening solo, and planning it to 8 or 16 bars, and in four 2 or 4 bar phrases respectively. I'd like the modulation to be fairly sudden so I think I'll leave anything B minor related untill the last phrase, which I'd like to be something like:

||Dm | A | C#m | F#7 || Theme in B minor

I'm working on the first 2 bar phrase (yep, decided on 2) shall try and post in a bit.

Here's what was in the last post (or would've been, had I remember to attach it ) plus a two bar start to the first solo. There arew no issues at all with playability on the recorder as I'm learning everything as I go, and I can play it fine having only played recorder since mid april, so no-one should have any trouble there

Mark

Just realised i've forgotten performance directions, will try and notate ASAP.

I've notated all of the first solo. I have a flute playing the recorder part as it sounds much more like a recorder than the recorder voice.

Brief Overview:

First phrase:
Chords:| Am G Am - | F Dm F - | Developed from Motif 1 (1545)
Second Phrase:
Chords:| C - Dm - | Am - Em E | This came from Motif 2 (ascending scale) I know the solo doesn't really fit the harmony, but for some reason it sounds good and as I'm not being authentic here I can take a few liberties can't I?
Third Phrase:
The chords in this one are exactly the same as in the first phrase.
It was developed from Motif 1, but in a slightly more sophisticated way than phrase 1, outlining the chords at the same time.
Last Phrase:
This was the one I was worried about. but actually came out my favourite.
The chords are |Dm - A - | C#m - F#7 - | With this phrase I am modulating from Am to Bm, something that Vivaldi certainly wouldn't do in 2 bars! It also comes from Motif 1, being developed in a similar fashoin to phrase 3.

Mark

I've downloaded what you've added so far and I'l taking a look at it. I'll most likely post a reply in a couple of days.

I have some ideas:
After this ritornello, next go to E major, then back to finish in A minor.
In the third solo have the violin one enter as a solo instrument aswell and play in free counterpoint and 'duel' with the recorder.
Any thoughts?

I do have thoughts

Before we go on I'm going to give give you the "good the bad and the ugly" of what I saw in your piece.


THE ORCHESTRA:
1) After the opening Ritornello the movement in the string orchestra becomes very stale. I can understand that you may not want a busy sounding orchestra at that moment to take away form the solo but I think it would be best to use longer values as you have done only if you are trying to provide a texture/background to enhance the solo experience. Also, there are ways of keeping the orchestra from overshadowing the solo without becoming stale. The solo feels to be moving forward where the orchestra doesn't have that feeling, hence the word stale. Remember I mentioned that I wanted you to be economical with your themes and motifs in creating material for the orchestra as well. You could then think about creating moments of duest, trios, imitation, etc. with orchestra and solo, within the orchestra itself. You do introduce a little imitation in meausre 14 and 15 which is a nice touch. I'll say more on that in another paragraph.

HARMONY AND VOICE LEADING:
2) The music comes across as harmonically awkward and contributes to the problem of the harmonic progression not feeling forward moving. Although you have chosen longer values for the orchestra elegant voice leading can make a difference. Try to give each voice a personl sense of direction and interaction with the music even if you use longer note values.
In fact in measure 9 on the 4th beat you have a direct octave between the recorder and cello into measure 10.

I believe measure 14 is where you mentioned that you knew the solo didn't fit the harmony but you liked it anyway. Well, this is one of those awkward moments harmonically I was talking about. The imitiation idea you've introduced bewtween the solo and violins is very nice and I think the imitation is why you may like like that particular as much as you do. I think you should rework the that harmony and voice leading in that section.

I know its early in the piece, but don't be afraid to use non diatonic harmonies. You don't have to go off the deep end, but you have studied harmony and counterpoint and now is the time to put it ALL to good use within reason.

THE PIZZICATO:
3) I LOVE the idea of having the pizzicato in the upper strings and the cello playing arco. It gives an added dimension for texture. However, a note played pizzicato decays quickly and I think you should handle it with care and creativity. There's a lot of fun to be had with the pizzicato in your piece. I think you should think about it.

THE SOLO:
4) I like the solo and I don't really have any issues with it. Again, in reference to harmony and voice leading, don't be afraid of some chromatic non chord tones. They don't have to be plastered everywhere, but I think later on in the peice a few here and there will spark the mind on what it will do to the counterpoint and implied harmonies of your piece.

I do have an example of using your exisiting ideas to create material for the orchestra, but I would like for you to work it out and if you are having trouble I will post my example using your piece.

Good work so far.

I want to hear your thoughts or explanations.