Lesson with Mark

Originally Posted by Majesty

THE ORCHESTRA:
1) After the opening Ritornello the movement in the string orchestra becomes very stale. I can understand that you may not want a busy sounding orchestra at that moment to take away form the solo but I think it would be best to use longer values as you have done only if you are trying to provide a texture/background to enhance the solo experience. Also, there are ways of keeping the orchestra from overshadowing the solo without becoming stale. The solo feels to be moving forward where the orchestra doesn't have that feeling, hence the word stale. Remember I mentioned that I wanted you to be economical with your themes and motifs in creating material for the orchestra as well. You could then think about creating moments of duest, trios, imitation, etc. with orchestra and solo, within the orchestra itself. You do introduce a little imitation in meausre 14 and 15 which is a nice touch. I'll say more on that in another paragraph.

I understand what you mean here, I shall attempt to do something more creative with the orchestra now, I should have something posted by the time you're next online.

HARMONY AND VOICE LEADING:
2) The music comes across as harmonically awkward and contributes to the problem of the harmonic progression not feeling forward moving. Although you have chosen longer values for the orchestra elegant voice leading can make a difference. Try to give each voice a personl sense of direction and interaction with the music even if you use longer note values.
In fact in measure 9 on the 4th beat you have a direct octave between the recorder and cello into measure 10.

I expect giving each voice a little more to do would help with giving each voice 'a sense of direction'? And I'll fix that direct octave

I believe measure 14 is where you mentioned that you knew the solo didn't fit the harmony but you liked it anyway. Well, this is one of those awkward moments harmonically I was talking about. The imitiation idea you've introduced bewtween the solo and violins is very nice and I think the imitation is why you may like like that particular as much as you do. I think you should rework the that harmony and voice leading in that section.

Do you mean m.11? That's the bit with the imitation. I shall rework the harmony in that part, I don't want strange harmony to ruin what is otherwise one of my favourite bits so far.

I know its early in the piece, but don't be afraid to use non diatonic harmonies. You don't have to go off the deep end, but you have studied harmony and counterpoint and now is the time to put it ALL to good use within reason.

I think in the next solo I'll utilise secondary dominants a fair bit, I haven't yet as I want the first solo to have full effect and not have the harmony too 'out there' to distract the listener's attention. I generally steer clear of chromatic chords as I'm not too fond of their sound, but I do like secondary dominants

THE PIZZICATO:
3) I LOVE the idea of having the pizzicato in the upper strings and the cello playing arco. It gives an added dimension for texture. However, a note played pizzicato decays quickly and I think you should handle it with care and creativity. There's a lot of fun to be had with the pizzicato in your piece. I think you should think about

I'm using the pizzicato to kind of get a similar effect to the basso continuo concept, but without using a harpsichord. I'll have a look at adding more passing notes et cetera in the string parts to heighten this effect and 'keep things moving' a little more.

As i said, I'll try and post having addressed all of these points sometime in the near future.

Thanks, Mark

hmmmmm.
I've corrected the direct octave, but I'm having a little trouble working the motives into the strings, this is much more difficult than I hoped it would be.

Yes, I did mean measure 11 regarding the imitation. Sorry about that.

You may have to take some time and think and really work at it. I'm not suggesting that all parts of the orchestra be busy at all times. I am suggesting that instead of long note values as a 4-part choral support for the solo only, you should use material that you have already come up with in the orchestra to either support the solo, play against the solo, create various types of textures. It is okay to include long note values as well. In everything that you do I want you to pay attention to the lines of counterpoint you are creating. Think about the direction of each part/voice even if you decide to use long note values as a 4-part choral like background in the orchestra.

Take your time with it and let me know if you are really having a tough time and I'll post and example.

I shall dedicate a good few hours today to experimenting with creating material for the orchestra, if successful I'll post before your day begins

It would appear that I'm banging my head against a braick wall with this one. However, I have got some work done on the bourree, just the melody atm though. I'll also keep trying to come up a nice theme for the Fuga, as themes always take me ages to come up with.

I am going away to Buffalo, NY and will be back on Wednesday. We will resume lessones then.

Okies

Ok, I'm back. Were you able to come up with anything you feel confident is showing or perhaps something you've worked on in the orchestra that you'd like further help with?

After hours of trying, I haven't been able to come up with anything remotely pleasant sounding

What has been your approach to trying to create material for your orchestra based on musical material already present in your piece?