Lesson with Marsbars (General Composition, Literature, History)

Well, first off, clean up the score some. You should group up the rests, rather than have all those 8th rests flyin' around for no reason. It's fine if your rhythm is extremely complex that you need to single out the rests otherwise nobody can coordinate, but here it's relatively easy. (I mean like, measure 29, for example.)

Also, remember that dynamics are important. Write them. The bulk of the piece after the beginning is all in mf! It's an important aspect, try to work with it. For example, measure 28-29 make me think of a diminuendo/decrescendo, but since you didn't write anything...

As for what you wrote. Well, be careful using rests, since you can alter the overall flow of the piece considerably if you're using them more than just general pauses. Here you've introduced an entirely different harmonic/rhythmic contrast which I think isn't necessarily bad, but it's a little spaced out.

Consider if maybe you can stick to the idea you present in measure 28-29 until 31 or so. I can see the whole simplification to a single small figure and from that building up, but for the effect to really sink in maybe you can play a little more when the bassoon and clarinet doing the duet.

Another thing is that maybe that super-simplification comes very harsh and sudden in measure 28. If you wanted that, alright. But if not, maybe you want to progressively "take things out" until you're left with that small motive. Or, increase the contrast by complicating the harmony/chromatic to the point where you get dissonance/polyrhythmics and THEN suddenly jump to the simplification. Just as in idea.

What the simplification probably shouldn't sound like is like you forgot to write the rest of the voices. That's why I suggest sticking with the clarinet+bassoon duet a little more and developing it, so that it's clear that the Oboe isn't so much "missing" as it's simply not needed. Dig?

Unless, of course, you intended that specific effect. :>

So, looking good so far. What are you going to do next? It's a pretty big change what you're doing there considering the upbeat-jumpy character of what came before. Remember it's also OK to completely break the jumpy/staccato figures and work a little outside of rhythm with long notes and dissonances. It'd give it an even sharper contrast and a different character altogether (even if you work with the same motives.)

Also remember you can make use of tempo changes, and so on. Accents, too.

And well, my other recommendations are still valid from my previous posts. I'm looking forwards to see what you do with this.

Sorry.. I've been busy as of late. I'll probably get cooking on this piece by next week.

You're right about that over-simplification section - it needs to be revamped as do a few of the other sections. I eventually want to get this thing performed so I've got plenty of cleaning up to do also. I'm going to learn what I have so far on piano and hopefully I can get a firmer grip on the writing that way. We'll see.

s'coo'. Thanks for telling me.

I wrote another contrasting section that moves away from the jumpiness/playful character. I'm not sure if it's possible to play due to the long notes. All instruments are playing continuously for 20 measures or so - is this a problem?

I'm still not sure what to do about that sudden transitioning point but now I'm leaning towards leaving it as is. If I'm going to change anything it would be to develop the clarinet/bassoon duet a bit more as well as the beginning motive.

About rests: should I try to condense rests into dotted where possible?

I'm in the middle of a lot of stuff, so give me a couple of days and I'll write my opinions as always in more detail.

Concerning your "play for a long time" for winds, you can sometimes count on people doing circular breathing, but that's not always the best way to do it. If the passage is relatively slow notes, like whole notes and such, you can pull off circular breathing a lot easier. But a good wind player can really do it at all times almost. It shouldn't be a problem. Plus, just write whatever you want and then we can worry about the actual technical problems since those only really merit a couple of tiny detail alterations. Don't write your piece thinking it's playable or not, write it like you want it and then worry about the technical details.

The reason to do it like this is that once you're finished writing what you want you at least know how it "should" be, and you can make technical changes with an orientation on how it should be and strike a balance between playable and what you originally wanted. If the case it's too hard or complicated. If it's all playable (in this case it seems all pretty playable to me) then no problem.

Anyways, there's some other stuff I want to say but right now I'm short on time so it'll have to be later, sorry.

K.

So, right off the bat, I'd suggest making a rall on measure 53 or so. Try it out see if you like it. I think it'd be more.. hm.. "smooth" with the change that comes after. Plus, you haven't used tempo changes so here would be a good place to do it.

On measure 34-35 in the oboe, you should PROBABLY specify dynamic, since you haven't since before and I don't think you want the exact same character for that motive/voice in that area. Plus, perhaps you can add accents and/or staccatos to the bassoon and clarinet to make the contrast/pulse more evident and contrasting.

As for the new section at the end with the long notes and unison, and stuff, you should probably take a couple of the motives from the first part or some rhythms to sort of make the connection that you're not just "writing a new piece" each time you write a new section, and that the entire thing can be heard as a "whole" rather than disjointed sections.

The passage from 63 till 71 seems a little too long with the same idea. Specially the harmony and rhythm seem very downplayed considering all that you did just before getting there. I'd recommend you rethink this section and see if you can bridge what comes at 72 with what comes before this passage in a different way.

Something you should know too, sometimes it's better to write ties rather than dotted notes if you have other voices doing different things, specially in measure 5 for example in the oboe. The F is easier to read if it's tied (quarter + 8th.) It doesn't matter so much when everyone's playing the same rhythm (like measure 12, etc.)

As for your rests, just respect the 4/4 traditional rule if you want. Only group rests if they're in 1 and 2, or 3 and 4 beats respectively. There's no real rule, so long as your actual notes are written properly.

I don't understand why you're connecting stems over rests in some parts, like measures 23-24-25. So, if you can clear that up, that'd be great.

Well that's all I can think of right now, keep writing!

Hey man.. Can I call you Chris?

I'm not going to complete this project because I pretty much lost interest in it. This doesn't have anything to do with YOU or how you teach or anything like that. Believe me, you helped me out more than you can imagine. I know you're busy with a bunch of different things and I don't want my indecisiveness or lack of interest to hinder or trouble you. I recently went through a bad (religious, spiritual) experience and things got "shook up" a little and wound up deleting all of the music on my hard-drive and almost everything I ever composed. I realized this project has pretty much been pushed completely to the brink of oblivion and I'm not in the right state of mind to return to it. It's not that I don't like the piece, I think it has its moments, but right now I can't force myself to work on it nor would I ever want to do such a thing.

Now I'd just like to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for what you've so carefully taught me. It's not often people extend themselves as you did without money being involved; especially over the internet. Many things went down in this thread, things were taught, music was made, composers were discussed. The most important thing you did was break me free from my musical shackles . I was afraid to set pencil to paper or create a note in finale before this thread. Now I feel I have more control over my own creative output and thoughts.

Thanks

I understand, and certainly it's no bother to me at all. We can stop working on the piece if you like and maybe talk about other things, remember that I'm here to help you as a composer/musician/so on, which includes stuff like this.

I'm open to anything you'd like to talk about/work on/anything, so if I can be of any help, please do say so. I hope things get better for you, though I didn't understand exactly what happened it's none of my business if you don't want to tell me.

On the other hand if you're sure you want to just end the whole thing and move on, I can cancel the pairing and that's that. We can also just leave it on hold until everything settles down on your side maybe, so it's your pick. Think about it, no rush.