Lesson with Ram

Yes, you are right in understanding that the note C and not F or F# in the answer is to help perserve a tonal structure. I thought you were asking if putting the note F or F# anywhere in the answer would be a problem.




Here is another example of a tonal answer from a Bach in the key of G minor (WTC. BWV 861)

Subject: D Eb G F# G

Answer (in the key of the dominant): G Bb D C# D


This example gives a better example of the answer suggesting the key of the dominant. Again, tonic and dominant changes roles but you will notice there is a slight alteration in the asnwer. The alterations usually occur to accomadate harmonic structure in the coutnersubject as well as to perserve specific intervals (by composer's choice) concerning the tonic and dominant (as was the case in Bach's fugue).

I will mention that a tonal answer in traditional examples are often used as an option when the subject starts on the Dominant, subdominant, or when the subject modulates to the dominant. But one doesn not have to choose a tonal answer unders these circumstances.




Was I able to aswer your question and make things clear or did I make it worse?

Originally Posted by Majesty

Here is another example of a tonal answer from a Bach in the key of G minor (WTC. BWV 861)

Subject: D Eb G F# G

Answer (in the key of the dominant): G Bb D C# D


This example gives a better example of the answer suggesting the key of the dominant.

Yes, but I would have emphasized only the first note as being the alteration. The remaining is just a transposition a 5th higher, but Bach chose to start with G and not A to keep the response "tonal" and continue to emphasize G minor a little longer (which is IV of the dominant).

So OK, I think I understand what "tonal" answer means now as opposed to "real".

In my previous post, I outlined what a "real" response would be for my fugue subject, with only the trailing part altered. Can you comment on that? Would my answer qualify as "real" despite this small mutation?

If you feel that you fully understand the difference between "Real" and "Tonal" answers then we can continue.

I did see your thoughts on writing a "Real" asnwer. So that you know, you will have to produce "Real" and "Tonal" answers for the sake of practice, comfort and understanding. As for tailoring the end part of your "Real" answer that is acceptable for a later time but not for the next lesson.

Here is what I want you to do:

1) Produce a "Real" answer without any modification for modulation back to the tonic for your original subject.

2) Produce a "Tonal" answer staying in the same key as the tonic for your original subject. Remember, some intervals may have to be modified. This one might be a little challening seeing that you original subject starts on the tonic is better suited for a "Real" answer. But give it a try anyway.

Originally Posted by Majesty

I did see your thoughts on writing a "Real" asnwer. So that you know, you will have to produce "Real" and "Tonal" answers for the sake of practice, comfort and understanding. As for tailoring the end part of your "Real" answer that is acceptable for a later time but not for the next lesson.

OK, I will do as you ask. Do I need to harmonize the answer to make it clear what is going on?

Meanwhile, whilst I'm working on this lesson, can you please comment on the exercise I've been doing whilst you were away: I've attempted to write 4 entries using the harmonizations I've been writing as a guide to write the counterpoint?

I'd like to know what's good and what's "less good", say. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ram

OK, I will do as you ask. Do I need to harmonize the answer to make it clear what is going on?

Meanwhile, whilst I'm working on this lesson, can you please comment on the exercise I've been doing whilst you were away: I've attempted to write 4 entries using the harmonizations I've been writing as a guide to write the counterpoint?

I'd like to know what's good and what's "less good", say. Thanks!

No, don't need to make anything clear unless you feel that I might misunderstand something.

I will take a look at the entries for you.

Ok, I've taken a look at the entrances.

My only observation/critique is more of a personal one. I was never fond of fugue entrances being perdictable. For instance after the entrance of the Answer I always liked the idea of either some sort of sequence or free compositional material as a transition back to the tonic before the 3rd voice enters. Or, if no transition material at that point perhaps after the 3rd voice. I just like how it breaks up the straight forward entrances of a fugue. By the way, this concept is something we will work on in the fugue lessons(among with some other concepts).

I also like the flavor of the chormatic counterpoint. Its well controlled with the voice leading.

Hey Ram,

are you all set to move on?