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Old Sep 4 2007, 3:49 PM

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Lessons with Saiming

Matt has decided to explore thematic potential.

So we will start with very simple theoretical material.

I would like you to list for me the different things that could be used to create a "theme" (or motif).
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In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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Old Sep 4 2007, 3:59 PM

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Do you then mean intervals between notes and rhythm. Or is there more?

Using different instruments in different ways, perhaps? Thinking about creating dialogs.
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Old Sep 4 2007, 4:51 PM

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for the time being, think in "abstracts"...
so, no specific instrument.
no harmony.

try to imagine all the elements that make one theme/melody different from another.

there's a short list, and I'm sure we might even forget a couple.
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"Those that know, do;
Those that understand, teach
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-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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Old Sep 5 2007, 11:15 AM

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Hm, well the usage of time, how fast or slow a motif is played as well as note length, pauses, note intervals.
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"One cannot clap with one hand, but they can click"
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Old Sep 5 2007, 2:13 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiming View Post
Hm, well the usage of time, how fast or slow a motif is played as well as note length, pauses, note intervals.
so can we distill this down to:

rhythm
  • tempo
  • note lengths
  • specific rhythmic units
  • rests
  • repetition?

sound relationships
  • interval relationships
  • dynamics?
  • timbre?

We could also add "proportion" and "architecture".

So to construct thematic material we have a lot of building blocks from which to work.

OK, so now on to something very simple, in C major.
Using simple chords in C major, constuct a melody (don't waste too much time constucting a beautiful accompaniment, just go with simple block chords in the left hand) for piano/keyboard.

Consider the repetition of your basic thematic material as a starting point.

If you start with a 4-note motif, examine HOW you might alter that motif to repeat it a second time.
Does it have a unique interval?
Or a rhythm?
Can you invert the motif to create "new" material?

I want you to create a "high point" in the phrase.

How do you bring about this high point?
  • rhythmic alteration
  • bringing the music to a pause
  • bringing the music to a suspensive point
  • dramatic textual repetition of an initial motif
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"Those that know, do;
Those that understand, teach
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-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sep 5 2007, 3:01 PM

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I have now written a short phrase. I actually just transposed it and inverted the motif at the end, I hope it is ok. Otherwise I'll gladly redo it
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Old Sep 5 2007, 3:09 PM

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ok, now break your melody up into its componant elements.
what is "important" in your melody?
what is worth using as motivic material for a larger piece of music?

are there any rhythms that could be modified to make the phrase clearer?
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"Those that know, do;
Those that understand, teach
."
-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.
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Old Sep 5 2007, 3:20 PM

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I am sorry that I cannot complete this task today since my mother is going totally berserk, and I have to shut the computer down soon


But when I glanced at it a bit quickly I noticed that a pause measure 4, when the motif is repeated a third time could clear thinks up a bit. I will take a closer look tomorrow
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"One cannot clap with one hand, but they can click"
- Ila Marie Harder
Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which follows its own laws - D. Adams
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer - D. Adams
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sep 6 2007, 12:42 PM

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I have added a pause and variated it slightly, hope it is more satisfactory.
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"One cannot clap with one hand, but they can click"
- Ila Marie Harder
Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which follows its own laws - D. Adams
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer - D. Adams
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sep 8 2007, 10:32 AM

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sorry for the delay in responding (I've been busy wth some work).

I find the rests interesting, but you should be aware they create a bit of a "choppy" effect as well.

You might consider keeping the same basic over-all rhythm but reducing the number of rests (fill in the rests simply with held notes).

I like the way you shifted the rhythmic figure from the 1st beat to the 3rd beat of the 2nd measure, however, I will point out one detail of harmony that might cause a bit of confusion for the listener:

the B natural (measure 2, start of the next repetition of the motif) is the leading tone. As such the ear (in C major) tends to want to hear it as the end of the previous phrase (on the dominant harmony - G). This is accentuated by the fact that measure 3 starts melodically on the tonic (C) even if the harmony is diffferent.

One problem I hear in this melody is that it doesn't seem to be supported by the harmony which accompanies it. Notice how often the melodic tones are "Strangers" to the harmony below them? Notice how often the actual chord tones fall on weak beats or half beats?

This doesn't mean that all melodies MUST be always ON the harmony that accompanies, but you should have a sense that the harmony and melody are really related. Rare are the tonal melodies where the melody is entirely made up of "dissonant" notes.

I also notice that there is a preponderance of appoggiatura (dissonant note on the beat, resolution off the beat). This sounds suspiciously like Howard Shore's score to LotR. For the time being... STOP LISTENING TO MOVIE MUSIC.

how about starting over.
Use the same harmonic frame.
Create a melody that uses motifs (you got the hang of that part).

However, let it be PART of the harmony, and not fighting against it all the time.

You might consider using a few more "wide" intervals. And a few less rests. keep rests for important moments. Too many rests makes the melodic material very fragmented.
__________________
"Those that know, do;
Those that understand, teach
."
-Aristotle-

"toute audace engendrée par l'ignorance cesse d'être une audace et devient une maladresse"
-Debussy-

In musical criticism, when issues of craft and technical consideration are set aside, what remains is more subjective. However, until technical issues are dealt with, the subjective portion bears considerably less weight.

 



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