Melody #1

Alright, I guess I'll go first. I'll try and provide my thoughts about everyone else's harmonizations.

Nickthoven - Sadly, the brass sounds awful in MIDI form..... but thats not your fault. I found it interesting, it was quite dark. It seemed like this was a very counterpoint based harmonization, which I liked, but the lines didn't seem to be moving in a consistant manner. I would suggest rethinking the voice leading, but don't change your chords, they are quite lovely.

Bitter Duck - You added an interesting countermelody in your harmonization. Technically this makes it an arrangement or transcription, but I still liked it so it doesn't matter. The first time the melody is played though, the "bass" line (the string part that was very soft) seemed very indistinct and almost wandering around. The second time through was better though. Anyways, it was difficult in some parts to hear chords, I mostly heard moving lines. However, I still very much enjoyed it, it was a "noble" sounding arrangement.

Wolf_88 - This sounded very professional. It sort of grabs you by the neck, this is a very "extroverted, brassy" presentation. Good use of the orchestra. Once again though, this is clearly a full-blown arrangement (even with percussion!). Although, I did hear your chords quite clear and they were very nice and fit well with the melody. Overall, it was very good and it sounds like it could be a Dracula theme or something.

spc1st - This was a very "atmospheric" presentation. However, the interplay between your choir parts was a little confusing, and seemed rather wandering again. Since this is very heavily-counterpoint, you might consider rethinking about how the different choir lines interact with each other - perhaps add imitation, retrograde..... here's a chance to learn from Bach!

Tyler -JOhnson - I had a hard time hearing your harmonies in the first part - you might turn up the dynamic or change the patch, as I really couldn't make it out (it sounded very muddled). The piano presentation was very good, with the chords arpeggiated. The chords worked well with the melody. Good job!

Letehn - I really couldn't hear any sort of distint harmony in this. You should add another part or two so you can create some actual chords and harmonies (the only harmonic part is at the very end). Your countermelody was interesting, but rhythmically was a little confusing in relation to the rhythms of the melody.

Conqueso - Very proffesional sounding too. This was the most "arranged" of the harmonizations. Again, not much to say here... it was very refreshing to listen to.

Tyler -JOhnson - I had a hard time hearing your harmonies in the first part

Are you talking about the Strings or the Flute?

You guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing.

I've been wanting to stay out of the way and just let things happen in here, but at this point I just have to give my very brief comments (NOT JUDGMENTS!...we're all in on that) on what you all have done so far, since it's my tune you have graced with your talent and seemingly boundless imagination.

Nickthoven: Imaginative harmonies, and a bitchen coda!

Nightscape: Rather impressionistic, very pretty.

BitterDuck: I wasn't always sure why you made the choices you made in the first attempt. The second made better sense, and the progressions in the 2nd variant were really cool.

Letehn: The glittery filigree accompaniment was the magic in this one. Again, the 2nd attempt was even better than the first.

Wolf: Very cool rhythmic ideas and orchestration.

Spc1st: The most imaginative of the lot - ultimate coolness.

Tyler: The most conventional, but also the most cohesive and succinct. Progressions are logical. Nice!

Conqueso: Wow...really imaginative orchestration and progressions.

What immediately strikes me is the fantastic variety displayed here. These are all far more than harmonisations. They're like variations on a theme. On the Old Board a couple of years ago, I started a thread challenging people to write a variation on a Mozart Minuet, with similar results.

My compliments to every one of you, and thanks for so honouring my tune.

THIS THREAD IS BY NO MEANS CLOSED. Any of you who want to take a stab at it, by all means go ahead!

This is for those of you who have already written a harmonisation, or for anyone else who may be interested. If you haven't yet written one and would like to try, don't listen to this just yet...I don't want it to affect your concept.

Would you like to know where this idea came from? It's one I've had bouncing around in my head for years that I didn't know what to do with. I finally just wrote it down, conceived in a symphonic context. What's troubling to me (if that's the right word to use) is that it's the most, umm, Romantic idea I've ever had.

This is a VERY rough sketch, and just the merest beginning of the movement. I don't know quite what to do with this yet, because I don't feel like I have the skills to fulfill its potential. I'm also scared to death, because I'm having more trouble these days with my long-held Classicism, and more progressive ideas are coming to me that don't fit with my technique - ironic, because I just had another argument with someone the other day who was trying to tell me that I "needed" to become more progressive. It seems to be happening gradually on its own...and I feel lost.

Anyway...here's the symphonic sketch this came from. Note that for this thread I truncated the melody, which is more expansive here. I welcome comments and criticisms. Thanks.

Note: if you must listen to the MIDI, go ahead, but it sounds like crap. The MP3 is relatively small, and its quality is worth the download.

I LOVED it!!! It's better than anything I could ever conceive of writing. Congratulations on this little marvel.

PLEASE post the final movement/symphony when you get it completed. Granted that it may not be for quite some time based on your post, but I'll wait in anticipation. Brillant work which shows the mountain of experience that you've accumulated over the years. Hopefully I will one day be able to compose like this!

Anyway...here's the symphonic sketch this came from. Note that for this thread I truncated the melody, which is more expansive here. I welcome comments and criticisms. Thanks.

Wow, that is very good. J. Lee why don't you finish it? I am extremely impressed. Not only is it a good melody, your orchestration is superb. Try and finish this piece for God's sake! Don't be afraid, you obviously weren't afraid when composing the clip and it sounds superb.

The clarinet for the melody was a good choice, and I love how the oboe chimes in. The bassoon integration can't be done any better than the way you have it.

Thanks guys.

I've been working on this all day...12 hours off and on. I can't leave it alone. It's only the first 40 measures of music, though...I can't go on until I have it "right." I'm doing what I "normally" never do...editing, adding, taking away, experimenting, revising. Based on your reactions, it seems my instincts outside of Classicism are good, but I've stepped way outside my comfort zone - that's what I mean by being "scared," I suppose - and for the first time in years, I'm having to work really hard at composition. Maybe that's a good thing. Hmm...is "comfort" what has been keeping me in the 18th Century for so long?

My last major project was an hour of 18th Century dance music, in which I stretched the idiom almost to breaking at times; I cut the project short because I ran out of appropriate ideas. Now I'm having trouble staying within the idiom long enough to finish my G major symphony properly. It's coming along, but what I've written lately is far more adventurous and doesn't match what I wrote before, which was textbook Classicism. I may be reaching the point where I will have said all I personally can say in a Classical idiom. Am I outgrowing it, finally? I never thought that day would come.

Your reactions to this sketch are interesting to me. The enthusiasm even in two comments is greater than it has been for most of my other Classical pieces, which don't usually elicit more than a "gee, that's nice."

Anyway, thanks for your encouragement. I'll keep working.

I agree, great work Lee!

Letehn: The glittery filigree accompaniment was the magic in this one. Again, the 2nd attempt was even better than the first.

Heheh. I don't have the spiffiest idea of what ''glittery filigree'' means! I'm asuming it's a compliment...

Lee, that does indeed sound a step up (ie, more 19th century influeces) from your normal stuff, but it definitely sounds like you've got quite a grasp of it, even if you deny it yourself . I also quite liked that you are starting to compose from a more audio perspective (on the computer) - the dynamics and timbral balance really does this piece good. The only thing I have to complain about is that the solo woodwinds sound rather flat, both sample-wise and sequence-wise. Try to add a bit more flair to the parts, and I'm sure you can find some better solo woodwind samples (I assume you are using soundfonts). In any case, I look forward to the finished product .


Anyways, on to the harmoization commentary (sorry if I'm a bit inprecise - I'm at work right now and don't have access to a sequencer/notator to look at the music - now one may question why I'm spending so much time here in the first place during working hours.... well, let's just say pretty much everyday at work is a slow day for me ):


Nickthoven - I have agree with Nightscape that when the layers start piling up, it becomes very muddled, at least on the normal MS-GS synth. But still, this is probably my favorite harmonization, particularly with the video game music inspired chords. And the lead in from the original too, though all in unison, provides a nice constrasting effect that leads in well to the harmonized part - nice job!

Nightscape - I quite liked how you messed tweaked the the oboe's expression and the overall tempo to give it a more humanized feel - you should also try messing a bit with the modulation controller to give it a sort of vibrato too (first double it on another channel, with a reduced volume and different panning - and apply the modulation there for a more "realistic" effect than just modulating directly). The harmony itself is pretty sufficient, though I thought the 2nd (diminshed) chord felt a bit out of place. A nice, laid-back but effective attempt.

BitterDuck - Your's sounds like the most "natural" of the bunch, as in "this is probably the 'real' orchestration that goes with the theme". Some of the chords sound kinda out of place (ie, there's a jazzy chord near the end of the 1st part, and an equal off-setting parallel chord progression near the end of the 2nd part), but other than that I quite enjoyed it.

Letehn - I don't know if I'd gone with an organ for play such staccato-y parts (maybe a percussive or hammond organ, but the church organ....?). The harmony does feel a bit bare, with mostly unison notes (it's still hard to hear what's going on with the other voice, even in the revised version). Sounds kinda humorous, though, especially with that curious chord at the conclusion .

Wolf_88 - A very bombastic arrangement! I like the energy and all, but maybe you could turn the global volumes down a bit (it's really blasting on the MS-GS, especially with headphones). I enjoyed the varied instrumentation and little flourishes here and there are a nice touch that really gives it a driven feel. Neat stuff.

Tyler -Johnson - It doesn't sound like there's really any harmonic except maybe the rising string parts to sort of set up for the next section; it's a bit hard to hear the harmonic parts in the piano, though, so maybe buffing them a bit with the strings would help? But from what could hear, it does sound pretty fluid. Nice work with the rolling chords, too. .

Conqueso - Sounds almost glitzy - I'm fairly impressed how you've manged to make the theme work in this context (smoothly alternating between jazzy and "classical" harmonies) - the sequencing is quite good too. The only thing I thought might be changed is the chord on the harp roll near 0:07 - it doesn't really go well from the previous chord, nor does it flow smoothly to the next. Other than that, though, great job!

Also,

spc1st - This was a very "atmospheric" presentation. However, the interplay between your choir parts was a little confusing, and seemed rather wandering again. Since this is very heavily-counterpoint, you might consider rethinking about how the different choir lines interact with each other - perhaps add imitation, retrograde..... here's a chance to learn from Bach!

I have to admit that choral writing isn't one of my strengths (I'm not even sure that the ranges for each voice work in this piece!), but this was more of an experiment than something well-thought out. I think I was trying to see if I could smoothly progress the harmony by constantly descending notes in constant discreet divisions (ie, Soprano always have 3/4 notes, Alto with half-notes, Tenor with quarter notes, and Bass with whole notes)... well, as you can see, it didn't quite work out, and I had to make some exceptions. And so I tried to make it all "atmospheric" sounding to try to cover that up a bit . But when the opportunity presents itself, I'll certainly try to check up on Bach's works and see if I can't learn a thing or two from him .

Spc1st - The most imaginative of the lot - ultimate coolness.

Thanks; that coming from you, I feel quite flattered . Though I have to ask, by "imaginative", do you mean contrapunally, or effect-wise? As I've explained above, the chords weren't really well thought-out, and barely managed to work - and the FXs are mostly presets, as I don't know enough about DSP to stray far from them.

Anyways, I'll try to put more effort into the 2nd melody; I hope everyone else does as well.

I hope I didn't miss anyone's, oh and the order is all screwed up. Anyway...

Nightscape - You kept it very simple, chords and melody. It's very calm and nice, but I don't think the oboe was the greatest choice for the melody here...maybe a clarinet or even something like a violin could bring out the darkness you are hinting at better.

Conqueso - The melody is very hidden in parts. It's confusing at parts, 'cause there is so much going on without a clear...anything! The chords wander a bit, and you can only rely on the harp for consistency in the part writing. But the harmonies are nice!

Letehn - Haha! This is one wiggy harmonization, my friend. It loses a bit of coherency in the middle, where one manual starts going crazy, but other than that I really like it, it's nice and quirky.

Tyler - Another simple harmonization with a woodwind melody! Ooh then a beautiful piano arrangement! Wowza. Although the chords are the most basic, you have managed to create a superb arrangement, that ranks at the top for me. Well done.

Spc - This one's very ethereal, and I looove how it ends on an open fifth. But some of the harmonies get lost and are a little odd-sounding. But I like your idea.

Wolf - I like some parts, but on the whole it's a little inconsistent. It doesn't flow too well, and some of your orchestration is a little odd. But I have to say, I like a lot of the woodwind and string work, with their little counter-melodies.

Bitter Duck - The parts wander around a bit too much, and there's no chords at some parts. I think it could use a good supporting rhythm instrument like harp or harpsichord, to fill in the questionable chords.

Neptune - Hrm. I like this one, it really fits the melody perfectly. Somewhere towards the middle, the left hand starts going crazy, and there are a lot of questionable notes, and little harmonic structure. It doesn't support the melody all that well.


Thanks for your comments everyone. I know, I know, brass is one pain when it comes to MIDI, but I like the ensemble anyway. I'm not going to write something differently just because it sounds bad in MIDI, after all. As for the parts not moving consistently, Nightscape, I agree. I pretty much just slapped this together, and I was amazed at how well the harmonies and chords seemed to flow, so I didn't change it much. J Lee - The coda's my favorite part as well!