Most Common Melodic Rhythms

Originally Posted by DrPangloss

I would even argue that there is some stress on the first syllable in French. Not the same way we stress it in English, but some stress, making it, again, iambic.

An iamb is rising (da-DUM), though, so stress on the first syllable would make it "trochaic" or "dactylic"... although I definitely wouldn't use those words to describe the prosody of a language in general terms. It's way more complex (and interesting) than that, people.

Originally Posted by DrPangloss

I would even argue that there is some stress on the first syllable in French. Not the same way we stress it in English, but some stress, making it, again, iambic.

You would also be wrong to refer to the French word "Animal" as an iambic rhythm. It is, in fact, an anapest. three syllables, only the third of which is stresed

In English, the same word is a dactyl. three syllables, only the first of which is stresed Not an Iambe. two syllables, only the second of which is stresed

And the two initial syllables are quite unaccented in French. So you could argue until you turned bleu all you wanted, but that still wouldn't make it vrai.

So, continuing from the same word, setting the French word "animal" to music, you would be wrong to start it on a strong beat.

Unfortunately, too much pop music ignores tonic accents and displaces the natural rhythm of words to force-fit them into the music.

Gong, if you want to help future composers. Write something that matters. All of your threads have been complete BULLLLLLLLLLSHIT.

DOFTS, if you think the theories behind my music are so bad, I'd like to hear your music because if your music is better than mine, which in my opinion is quite excellent, your music must be positively spectacular.

Also in my theory, a tie between two sixteenth length rhythmic events would bring a rhythmic cell closer to optimal since two sixteenths added together equal an eighth which is what the evidence in the link posted suggests is the optimal which most melodic rhythms cluster around.

The same way that a student of language would need to study the basic vocabulary to speak the language well (even though he may know a few more complex sentences already) a student of music would perhaps do well to limit their melodic and rhythmic vocabulary at least much of the time, until they have their skills down.

If they can't regularly put a folklike melody together, then the fact that one time they accidentally hit a nail with their head while jumping around doesn't really mean they know how to build a house.

Gongster (may I call you that?): why don't YOU post some music you've written.

THAT way we can all judge whether your theories on music are as advanced as your artistic skills.

I take it you mean to say that the music up on myspace/gongchime doesn't count? Only the score? I've got those, if you want to see.

OK, Greg (aka Gongster), you write gamelan music.

Why don't you give us some concrete examples of how your "theories" apply to music OTHER than pop or gamelan music. I would be interested in some concrete examples.

So far, every time you've been confronted with demands for examples, you've come up with some completely off-the-wall remark about tieing two 16th notes.

So far, your entire thesis has been related to placing bricks one next to the other. I'm sorry, but knowing how to do that will NOT help you to build a house.

Let's hear exactly HOW this theory of yours applies to real-life music.

The study of melodic rhythm is probalby THE most important element one could focus on, even if my theories about it are wrong. Carefully constructed bricks such as these are indeed the way to compose minimally folklike music.

The only things about it that were not mentioned is that they do not have to start on the downbeat and where you start will affect where you stop. I normally compose instrumental music but the terminology of popular music is relevant here. The "Chorus" should end on a rhythmically important position.

That's different for a 4 measure phrase than a 2 measure phrase. So, if I started my rhythmic example on the down beat and wanted a two measure phrase, then we would have to truncate the rhythm at beat 3 of the second measure or another strong rhythmic position such as that.

Of course this is in relationship to the other section of music, the "verse". If the chorus ends on a somewhat weaker rhythmic position than on beat three, then it probably doesn't make much sense to end the verse an a similarly strong or even stronger position.

Any examples you get from me will all be related to popular styles such as rock, pop or hip hop. This is the only composition forum where everyone, including the moderators focus on requiring posts be in a different form and not on the current content.

The post about ties was not in response to you Cowboy.

Anyway, knowledge about melodic rhythm applies equally to both classical and pop only the melodic lines are longer in classical music.

Frankly, I don't care to give examples from the classical repertoire. Many young people will have had more exposure to popular music. It's important to build on a student's prior knowledge not force them to accept my prefered styles within the western canon.

Greg, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from with these posts.

It's as if you're trying to give lessons here or something.

It's not that the effort isn't appreciated, but rather that it's not being done in quite the right way for this forum.

You post these monumental threads, with images that could have been drawn by a small child... that sort of destroys your credibility as any sort of instructor, regardless of your declared studies in music education.

Wha exactly do you hope to achieve with your posts here?

THAT would help us a great deal in understanding whether or not this forum is really for you or not.

Originally Posted by Gongchime

The "Chorus" should end on a rhythmically important position.

Of course this is in relationship to the other section of music, the "verse". If the chorus ends on a somewhat weaker rhythmic position than on beat three, then it probably doesn't make much sense to end the verse an a similarly strong or even stronger position.

Anyway, knowledge about melodic rhythm applies equally to both classical and pop only the melodic lines are longer in classical music.

We all know the terms and we all know the "rules." It's about how you use them, and we haven't seen you do that, yet. If I write a song and the ending of the chorus doesn't fit the "rule" as you've stated, then am I wrong? Is my chorus bad because of that? Maybe, maybe not. If I've found a way to end my chorus which sounds good and is appropriate to the song, but doesn't fit your "rule," then who's to say my chorus isn't valid?

Anyone who knows the terms can theorize until they turn blue, but we like to see specific examples. And when we talk about specific examples almost every rule has an exception. I like theorizing, but only if we have things to back up our theories. Otherwise it looks like you're just repeating things you heard someone say once.