My cadence problem... (Waltz in C minor for orchestra)

Alrighty, I've been having this problem for a while now, as long as I can remember, and I've finally decided to see if anybody else could help me with this. My problem is (I think) I tend to use too many cadences and my stubs (pieces-that-I-don't-yet-consider-pieces) end up in gibberish and have no flow at all. The solution is easier said then done, quit using cadences, use DIFFERENT cadences. Problem is, I can't help it, the music takes me one direction, and no matter how many different ways I rewrite a section, I still wind up with the same problem.

Help.

This is something I just started, and no, I'm not adding more parts/harmony, the duet at the beginning is intended to be alone, ignore my orchestration, focus on my cadencing problem. As I have no space to upload any more files, I put it on eSnips, it is a .MUS.

WoO.20, Waltz in Minor for Orchestra - eSnips, share anything

Well, if that's where the music takes you... do you see a problem with the cadences? Do they sound bad or do you like them?

One thing you can, is keep the harmonic cadence, but continue the melodic motion.

MonkeysAteMe hints at this, but I'd like to say it in more words. I think that what you need to do is to just keep the rhythmic activity going over the cadences. Don't come to a stop just because you're cadencing; once you cadence, keep the line going; let it lead in to the next little phrase of music. Rather than releasing all of the momentum you've built up, keep the ball rolling. That will eliminate the start-stop feel of the music, which is, I assume, what's bothering you.

Anyway, that's what I would say. Maybe I'm stating the obvious, and maybe I misunderstand your problem. I'm no expert composer. Just saying what I think.

Very nice melody, by the way! It has enormous potential.

I suggest you look at the masters and see how they did it. Cadences are a continuous spectrum(or close enough) that depend on a lot of things coming together at once. The more things that close at the same time the more conclusive the cadence.

For example, A PAC can be made weaker by having the tonic chord come in on the 3rd beat in quad time. We "expect" it to come in on the first beat since it is the strong beat but if it is delayed it makes the effect weaker. This is a harmonic rhythmic modification. If you use an IAC then it is a melodic modification that also makes it weaker. It also depends on structure. If the new phrase contuniues immediately after the cadence so it also interrupts it then it might sound bad unless the context makes it work.

Usually it is enough for the rhythm to continue to signal that it isn't a complete cadence. The general idea though is simply to conceal the cadence so that its effect is weakened. Again, if you look at some of the masters work's you'll see some of the ways they did it. Some times is simply a rhythmic pause in the melody on the right note, sometimes its in the harmony, sometimes both... sometimes its difficult to tell because there is no real pause in rhythm but both the harmony and melody cadence together.

Methinks it would sound better with a half cadence at the end, the passage before (the antecedent) really has no answer (consequent). You might be better off if you changed it but it is strictly your decision.

You can always go further away, tonally, in your phrases so the points of rest seem more apt. However, if you want to avoid the cadence bug altogether, listen to Berg. Particularly Wozzeck, he paints pictures using blocks of colouration and non-cadential passages, but the emotion of the work is all the more intense because of it. It is an extension of the Wagnerian paradigm, with no points of rest at all (or if there are points of rest, they are hidden by voice leading).

However, for me, cadences are an important part of tonal, and atonal relationships. A cadence not just in the sense of perfect, imperfect, etc, but in the wider sense; a drawing together of threads, a point of rest. Stravinsky was keen on this idea, you can find lots of quasi-cadential patterns in even his most episodic works (Symphonies of Wind Instruments, for example). A good example of controlled use of cadences comes in his Octet, often arising purely from contrapuntal movement.

L.

Currently, I don't have Finale Notepad installed (it would be better if more people use midi files, as this is more universal) and my Sibelius doesn't want to open it...
Anyway, you say music brings you there. Why not control the music more consciously, I mean, things to be vice versa - to bring the music where you want? Try to plan it, not only to follow inspiration and feelings. If you don't want to cadence and create point of rest, continue with the flow; use melodically, harmonically and/or rhythmically weaker cadences. Have you tried to use more planning in your composing? I think this could help.