Orchestration: PART 1 (woodwinds) discussion

it's all rather "low" in register for all the instruments.
Thi isn't a bad thing for SOME of the instruments (all the reeds) however, the flute part will suffer.

It's a bit short for me to judge how well you are treating the ensemble.
If you really want to write another example, try doing a somewhat more "lyrical" phrase, something with breadth, where the orchestration can come out a bit more.

And DO try to use all 8 woodwinds of the wind section... writing quartets is not what this course is about

Thanks, I shall try and come up with something a little longer and more suited to this exercise, may take me a while though... *boots brain into action*

I had a go at the first exercise, if someone could let me know if it's right that'd be cool.

Question: Why do they write the Clarinets in Bb, so like it sounds a tone lower than what it is written as?

So, if I write C, it plays Bb yeah?

Why is Sibelius too dumb to realise this? I inserted a clarinet in Bb, and it still just played a C.

Should I have transposed the Clarinet higher so it would actually read to play a C?

That would have complicated things right, like I would have had to change sharps and flats etc. instead of just pressing 'up'?

Were we supposed to keep the piece in the same key or use any key we want?

Cheers!

I had a crack at the second exercise too. I have totally fallen in love with the higher, weak range of the bassoon.

Woodwinds Doubling Exercise

I did three different variations of the same short melody, all with the bassoon in it's higher range. I love the kind of desperate, helpless feel that it is capable of - kind of like a washed up baby seal quietly crying out for help



1. Octave doubling with a flute in its strong range. I originally liked this one the best and thought it really amplified the exhausted, desperate feel but now I'm going off it. I think it feels kind of empty because of the gap between the two; although the flute is in its strong range it doesn't seem strong enough.

2. Unison doubling with a clarinet in its strong range. I thought this gave it a more hopeful/curious feel.

3. Unison doubling with an oboe in its strong range. I think this gives it a satisfied, humble, relaxed, homely kind of feel. The sound of the oboe is growing on me.

Question: I read the part about how you can double two of the same instrument, a flute for example, and together they will sound like a different instrument. But I thought there already like TEN flutes playing in an orchestra??

BTW, thanks a lot, I'm really learning a lot from reading these masterclasses.

Originally Posted by Chris

I had a go at the first exercise, if someone could let me know if it's right that'd be cool.

Question: Why do they write the Clarinets in Bb, so like it sounds a tone lower than what it is written as?

So, if I write C, it plays Bb yeah?

Why is Sibelius too dumb to realise this? I inserted a clarinet in Bb, and it still just played a C.

Should I have transposed the Clarinet higher so it would actually read to play a C?

That would have complicated things right, like I would have had to change sharps and flats etc. instead of just pressing 'up'?

Were we supposed to keep the piece in the same key or use any key we want?

Cheers!

ok, that's a lot of questions.
I'd suggest getting a book on instrumentation, such as the Piston Orchestration manual. It's not too expensive.

Your examples have a few basic instrumentation flaws. For example, the flute and oboe registers you used are too low to acually be played on those instruments.

The goal of the exercise was to transpose up or down so as to place the phrase in one of the desired registers of the instrument in question.

Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about Sibelius, however, I am SURE that it has a transposition function to deal with instruments in varius keys.

Originally Posted by Chris

Question: I read the part about how you can double two of the same instrument, a flute for example, and together they will sound like a different instrument. But I thought there already like TEN flutes playing in an orchestra??

BTW, thanks a lot, I'm really learning a lot from reading these masterclasses.

Generally speaking an orchestra has two of each woodwind:
2 flutes (with the second doubling on the piccolo)
2 oboes (with the second doubling on cor anglais)
2 clarinets (with second doubling bass clarinet or little Eb clarinet)
2 bassoons (with second on contrabassoon where needed)

Some orchestras have access to larger woodwind sections: woodwinds by threes or even fours, as required by whichever piece of music they are performing.

The goal of this masterclass, however, is to start by learning how to deal with the basics. And in this case, basics will be woodwinds by 2s.

Thanks for your help.

I think I've sorted the first one out...

Originally Posted by Chris

Thanks for your help.

I think I've sorted the first one out...

well, you've reversed the order of the flute's strong and weak registers.
that might have been an inadvertant typo?

Remember, flute and oboe are polar opposites. Each is weak in the other's strong register.

And just in caes you missed where I mentionned it, the concept of "strong and weak" registers is not an absolute rule. It's a guideline. The registers of each instrument, whether "strong" or "weak", all have their uses. The idea is to learn where those uses are best.

A "weak" register can become a quality depending on the context.

For example, the piccolo's weakest register is its very bottom octave. However, in music that is extremely delicately orchestrated, for example pp shimmering string tremolos, a piccolo melody in that register gains a magical effet that no other instrument can reproduce.

Likewise, the "strong" register of an instrument can be an impediment to good orchestration. If you place the oboe consistantly in its lowest register, even in moments of extremely soft music, it will stick out like a sore thumb.. or an asthmatic duck (depending on the ability of your oboist).

Learning where and when to use strong and weak registers is the key to good orchestration.

I'm attaching a brief recording of something for piccolo, oboe and strings to demonstrate what I mean.
It starts with the piccolo against strings, in its weakest register. That register gives the piccolo a breathy, mysterious quality. Surprisingly, the sound is almost that of a wooden instrument, like a recorder.
This will come out even more with a real orchestra playing. (for an excellent example, listen to the first emasures of the opening track of John Williams score to E.T.)
This is followed by a rather "honk-ish" oboe on its very lowest notes, here used to create an effect of pungency.
Now the oboe moves to its higher register (its "weaker" zone if you will) and demonstrates where its use in that register can bring out all of its melodic softness.
The piccolo then interjects in ITS strongest register. In the high notes, the piccolo has a bit of difficulty controlling the volume, so don't expect pianissimo piccolo in the highest octaves.

Brief demo of oboe and piccolo in weak/strong registers

Oops! Yeah, that was just a dumb mistake with the flute. I didn't save the original file, just printed the pics, so I had to redo the whole thing. Guess I was rushing a bit

Thanks for that little lesson and recording. I see what you mean, weak and strong doesn't mean "bad and good".

Cheers.

I had a go at the Chord exercise too.

This is a D Minor; it has a very daunting energy. Reminds me of the first chord to those tunes they play on merry-go-rounds.



Woodwinds - D Minor

Any good?