Orchestration: PART 1 (woodwinds) discussion

Well I took your advice and started your exercises! I'm going to post the first three as everyone else did in the attached PDFs! Thanks for all the help!

Wayne, on exercise 1 I think you mistake the effect of the oboe... you have the upper register labeled as "strong", with teh lower range labeled as "weak". The oboe in its lowest 5th will sound considerably more pungent than any other instrument in the orchestra except possibly a muted trumpet.

Be careful about how you notate your trills. For example, the very first one, for flute, has a D#, but with a trill with a flat sign. It doesn't make sense harmonically, nor melodically. A trill on a D# would be half-tone to E natural, or whole-tone to E#.

Actually, I notice that you erred in your transpositions. You have four sharps as the key signature, but from what I am now interpreting of yor page of exercies, you mean to have mostly naturals there.

With exercise 2, the second example, while you ahve the clarinet in a solid register, the flute is ALSO in a very solid register as your phrase advances. The flute tone will dominate the sound.

Exercise 3 is fine, but, I would prefer if you orchestrated a simpler chord, and attempted to create a "mood" through the orchestration rather than through any inherent effect of the harmony.
In other words, is the predominance of any particular timbre in a mass of sound creating a wanted effect?
Rather than relying upon a chord which will create that effect regardless of the orchestration chosen.


Very good exercises, none the less. I am looking forward to the next set.

I thought I'd post my Exercise 4 before going on to 5 and 6 just to know if I'm doing things right.

I wasn't sure what kind of file you wanted, as most people don't have Finale 2009, so I attached a mus file; xml, pdf, and midi, and I"ve linked to the mp3 below:

Orchestration - Exercise 4

No harmony. Only what is present in the string. The woodwinds are to be ENTIRELY unison or octave doublings.

Harmony = Gone

Originally Posted by wayne-scales

Harmony = Gone

hehehe. good.
ok, comments measure-by-measure:

measures 1 - 4: I'd think that the trio of clarinet and bassoons might be a tad heavy. you might consider simply one cl. and one bsn. that way you get the compounded timbre of the single and double reed.

measure 4: be VERY careful of sudden changes in both register AND timbre.
in this particular case, you are leaping up 2 octaves, and changing to a VERY different timbre - the flute and oboe in octaves.

One important aspect of this sort of exercise is to keep nice smooth transitions from one set of instrumetns to another, instead of just jumping from one to another.

measure 5: your clarinets coming in in octaves this way will definitaly SOUND like an instrumental entrance. I don't think it suits the concept of smooth transitions and a smooth melodic line.

measure 6 - 7: here we have the same issue: a radical change of timbre, as well as a shift in register. Your 2nd oboe dropping off suddenly from a VERY pungent low register will sound like a sudden "hole" in the texture.

I also dont think that a flute and an oboe are sufficient to create the effect of that crescendo at measure 7.

It is important to learn how to orchestrate dynamic changes, rather than simply indicate crescendos and dynamics. Smooth entries on instruments, on different beats, will create a gradual increase in density of timbre.

measure 10: I don't think the oboes are the best choice for a sudden piano effect. Particularly since one is, again, in that particularly pungent extreme low register.

measure 12: I think that doubling flute and oboe on this phrase detracts from the "echo" effect of the phrase. Look carefully at the phrase. There was a shift in dynamic to a very soft dynamic, then that single little phrase repeats at the end. You did the preceding phrase ending with a solo oboe... so why not another solo instrument? and why the large shift in register? by shifting register up like that you bring a great deal of importance TO that little echo section. It should be almost a musical after-thought.


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OK, a good first try. Care to try again?
You can check the version I did and examine the transitions and register changes.

Better? I couldn't find your version of it!

I also neglected to say, thank you very much for all the work and time put into the lessons and especially for being so patient with such a slow learner!

Originally Posted by wayne-scales

Better? I couldn't find your version of it!

I also neglected to say, thank you very much for all the work and time put into the lessons and especially for being so patient with such a slow learner!

you can find mine on page 7 of the thread.

I will try and link to it (I'm not very good with these link thingies, so I hope it works)

my post where I include my realization of the melody

By the way, considerably better your second realization of the melody.
I'll come back a bit later and comment a bit more fully on it.

Originally Posted by wayne-scales

Better? I couldn't find your version of it!

I also neglected to say, thank you very much for all the work and time put into the lessons and especially for being so patient with such a slow learner!

ok, I'm examining your second realization now.

measures 1-3: the clarinet and bassoon has a nice sound in unison.

measure 4: the oboe now replaces the bassoon... however! I undertand that they are both double-reeds, but the oboe's sound is considerably clearer and brighter. There will be a relatively strong shift in texture when you hand off from the bassoon to the oboe.

measure 5: DO be careful about the sudden entrance of a new timbre AND a new register. Here you're bringing in the flutes (non-reed instruments, very crystaline sound) which are a new timbre, AND you're also adding a new register element (the 1st flute is one octave higher than the melody has been until now).

you might, for example, have considered using the 2nd flute from the very beginning, in its lower octave (weak register). Its sound would not ahve dominated the timbral mixture, however, it would at least be present for when you add the 1st flute later on, without causing a sudden timbral shift.

measure 6: again, a lone flute and oboe is VERY thin for the beginning of a crescendo.

Notice that at measure 7 flute 2 is in its very weakest register? It won't be adding substantially to the density nor timbre of the sound.

measure 8: AHA! there is no diminuendo. So why are you orchestrating one? Technically, that entire measure should be forte to the end.

Over all, I'd say be careful about so freely using unisons of same instruments. It's not in any way an error, but it's not something to which you should resort as a first choice in all situations. So I've seen lots of bassoon unisons and clarinet unisons in your realizations. From now on, let's keep those for very special instances.

Thanks a lot for these lessons!
Im sending here my first 3 exercises, I have a few notes:
Ex2: Doublings
I used oboe + clarinet one octave doubling, but this produces kind of a comic effect which I don’t want it. So I used flute replacing the oboe, but im afraid that in last measure the clarinet overpowers the flute due to its strong low notes vs low notes in flute….is this ok? I like more the effect that produces flute + clarinet
Ex3: Chord
I have a doubt here. The C of the oboe is also doubled in unison for flute. And this is the only note of the chord that is doubled in unison. Maybe this will stand out more this C note, and that’s not ok…..what do you think?
I appreciate your comments. Bye!