Orchestration: PART 1 (woodwinds) discussion

Chris, with so short a phrase, I would avoid having so characteristic an element in the first few measures, which does not return later on (the flute triplet).

OK, I understand where you were going with it, however, know that while you may have though of the middle part as the "main melody", because you have more than one instrument on the upper part, and you have two instruments in very strong registers up there (flute and clarinet) THEY are what will come across as the "main melody".

If you want to use the mid-range as your principle focus, then you have to give the mid-range as much of your attention as possible, and REALLY give the upper range as little.

Right now, it's a very nice, solid octave doubling. It works quite well, but I think you will be disappointed that it won't exactly give the effect you're looking for.

Also, don't forget to include dynamics! right now, I have no idea whether this phrase is soft or loud.

for the bassoon staccati, instead of skipping from one instrument to the other, why not give them BOTH something to play? either have one playing in the upper range, or octave/double the staccato notes to give them more weight.




Actually, this is something I'd like to comment on.

I notice a lot of orchestrations (I'm not singling out anyone here, it just appears to be a common problem) where the orchestral parts jump from one player to another and then back.

From the point of view of orchestration, unless an instrumental part is very long and exhausting, there is no audible reason to switch from player 1 to player 2 and back again.

Thechnically, player 1 should sound identical to player 2!

OK, I understand where you were going with it, however, know that while you may have though of the middle part as the "main melody", because you have more than one instrument on the upper part, and you have two instruments in very strong registers up there (flute and clarinet) THEY are what will come across as the "main melody".

If you want to use the mid-range as your principle focus, then you have to give the mid-range as much of your attention as possible, and REALLY give the upper range as little.

I see, I didn't consider that the low flute was in a weak register. Would something as simple as bringing the high clarinet into unsion with the flute and oboe solve this problem?

Also, don't forget to include dynamics! right now, I have no idea whether this phrase is soft or loud.

I won't trouble you with all my questions about this, but do you know of any good resources where I could learn about this kind of thing? I am not musically educated and am lacking familiarity with even some of these basic things.

Thechnically, player 1 should sound identical to player 2!

Could you elaborate on this please?

To me, it would mean unison doubling them all the way, but I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean.

Cheers.

P.S. Please don't forget my exercise 4 on page 17

if you had only a solo flute in the upper octave, with oboe and clarinet and flute doubling on the median melody, then it would carry a bit more weight. The upper flute would act as a harmonic reinforcement.

There are a lot of great books out there... I really can't recommend any. Look for something on "musical essentials" maybe? I have one from when my sister was taking piano (hey, my mother figured one musician in the family? why not have two!) called "Elementary Rudiments of Music". I keep it handy for the spellings of some of the more obscure indications, however, it seems to have a lot of information going from harmony to notation.

If we look at your bassoon parts, you use bassoon one for a phrase, then skip to bassoon 2, then back to bassoon 1.
Why?
Ask yourself "why give part of a phrase to one musician, then skip to another musician playing the exact same instrument for the next part of a phrase?"

It has no audible effect.
here's a little example of what I mean. the way this phrase is written will make absolutely no discernable difference.

OK, Chris, my concern with exercise 4 is that instruments come in in a way that will rather point to their entrances rather than make them subtle and smooth.

The first oboe entrance, for example, is VERY strong. It will suddenly bring a huge change in texture to the line. Which is not what we are looking for with this exercise.

The first oboe entrance, for example, is VERY strong. It will suddenly bring a huge change in texture to the line. Which is not what we are looking for with this exercise.

Is the oboe's entrance too strong because of the particular moment it was brought in, i.e. half way through a melodic phrase?

Ask yourself "why give part of a phrase to one musician, then skip to another musician playing the exact same instrument for the next part of a phrase?"

My thoughts were that I should spread it out more, like I have this worry of writing a piece where the second bassoon would only playing for 2 bars or something, for example, and it would seem like a waste.

But yeah, I see that what I did was pointless.

Thanks.

BTW, I just want to mention that a part of this course that I've found really helpful are the sample mp3s you created to show examples in doubling woodwinds etc. It's great to hear what these instruments really sound like, even if they are only samples.

Also, I noticed there's a lot of good woodwind examples in the film Home Alone 2

My thoughts were that I should spread it out more, like I have this worry of writing a piece where the second bassoon would only playing for 2 bars or something, for example, and it would seem like a waste.

I used to think like that, but if you notice an instrument is getting inactive do one of following:

• Double it with another instrument, test new timbres!
• Create a counter-melody
• Use it as sustainment, if you have a rather 'dry' piece.

Originally Posted by Saiming

I used to think like that, but if you notice an instrument is getting inactive do one of following:

• Double it with another instrument, test new timbres!
• Create a counter-melody
• Use it as sustainment, if you have a rather 'dry' piece.

Yeah, I guess there is AT LEAST always going to be room for experimentation.

Maybe I could even pick up a bassoon myself for 2 bars to save someone else the job, how hard can it be?!

Bassoon? Very, I think I've never played one myself, but alot of people I know have said that it's one of the most difficult orchestral instruments

Hehehe, bassoon was my second instrument in college... it's great!
Fingerings are a bit of a bitch in places, but after only a few months I was playing the Hindemith bassoon sonata.

In case you didn't know, it's one of my favourite instruments, along with viola.

Originally Posted by Qccowboy

In case you didn't know, it's one of my favourite instruments, along with viola.

Good taste!

Love for the bassoon has stuck with me since I bought my first CD, a couple of bassoon concertos by Vivaldi. Unfortunately I can't play it.