Pop song, I guess...

I hesitate to put this in one of the other subforums lest it be deemed "too accessible". I figure I'm safe posting this in the Pop forum.

Well, this is a piece *with* (not "for", but *with*) piano, strings, and chorus (I say "with" rather than "for" because apparently the latter implies a degree of virtuosity).

I figure this won't be popular here, but oh well - maybe one of the less-elitist types here will take a liking to it.

If it makes any difference at all, it uses two melodic themes that are very near and dear to my heart, so this certainly is a rather personal piece for me. Not that that makes it good, but I'm just sayin'.

zSHARE - ballade for piano strings chorus in d-flat major – tranquillo e dolcissimo.mp3

By the way, this is more just something to just sit back and chill to, rather than to sit and "wait for something to happen".

Hi Matthew,

Firstly, it's important that you ignore Justin's shameful attempt to undermine you. He's been writing music for a very long time, and he should be giving you advice not insulting you! I hope he hasn't put you off writing music, you must keep going as it's clear to me you have potential.

Very nice relaxing piece with lovely harmonies. It is a tad simplistic yes, but it works very well imo. My favourite part was the section starting, around 2:59, as well as the following section with the alberti bass. I think this section could do with a few supporting chords in the right hand however, although you do this later beautifully with the choir.

From the section starting at 5:21. I think you could work a little bit more on the transition. It's a very sudden change and is a little bit too suprising if you get what I mean! You could try a rit. slowing down to the end of the section, and then having the following section at a slightly slower tempo.

One other thing! At 5:31-5:33, there is a descending bassline that abruptly ends. I think it would work better if you added low C in the bass to support the transition to your C major chord.

Although I like your style, I do think you would benefit from adding some more complicated, 'thicker' harmonies. This does not necassarily mean changing every chord you write, but simply altering a few of them (eg sus chords, 7ths) although I'm sure you've put a few less conventional chords in at some point.
Also, try putting some tempo variation into your sequencer program! it will give it a less mechanic feel performance wise. Eg create subtle rubato by slowing down the tempo towards the end of a musical phrase and returning to original tempo at beginning (or slightly after the beginning) of the new phrase.
Keep writing, and post your results for some more feedback.

Hey almacq,

Thanks for the detailed feedback. You're right about the transition at 5:21. It's definitely jarring (and not in the good way). I'm glad you brought up tempo variation, because I've been meaning to figure out how to utilize dynamic markings in Finale, though I've always been unsure of whether the text actually affects playback. I guess I'll have to experiment with this, considering that it's quite an important feature. :o

Again, thanks for the feedback. As for Justin, well, in all honesty, it's not just him who prompted this thread's placement and the disclaimers. There's a certain mindset here (certainly not limited to here), so I figure I may as well avoid needless friction.

I really enjoyed it! Here are some of my feelings:

First off, the score stopped before the song ended, so I had to stop reading along, but there are a few very technical things. PLEASE utilize an 8va marking where you get into such high ledger lines. I'd even say at the beginning you might want to have two treble clefs instead of a treble and a bass. Also, the section in the piano with all of the triplets... since no one else is doing anything there and it's ALL triplets, you might want to consider putting that part in 12/8 instead, and playing with the tempo a little. And, please mark on the music which part is which. I was able to figure it out, but it's easier if everything is written out in score format, rather than four piano parts.

As far as the actual music goes:
For a good while you've got just the piano going, which is nice, but your other two (specifically your strings) sit there for a long time. Perhaps a violin obligato might make some of the earlier parts a little richer. Especially since when the strings finally do come in, all they do is mirror the piano. It makes for a bigger sound, and certainly the sound of the strings is very nice, but you could play with harmonies and counterpoints a little there to make it a full sound, instead of just a big sound. Particularly when you have all three going simultaneously, you really don't want them all doing the same thing. Then it's just a big version of the same sounds we've already heard the piano do. When you bring in more instruments (we'll refer to the voice as an instrument here) you have the possibility of doing so much for to fill out the sound, and layer the motifs, and play with the harmonies. I suggest you try some of this to make it more satisfying for the listener.

And, I assume the singers will be singing "ah"? There were no lyrics written in, so I just imagined they're there for the tone of the voice, not to be singing lyrics.

Hope this was helpful!

Originally Posted by MatthewSchwartz

Hey almacq,

I guess I'll have to experiment with this, considering that it's quite an important feature. :o

Definitely! One of the biggest differences between a human performance and a computer performance is the timing. I don't know about finale, but in Sibelius the tempo markings do affect the timing of the performance. However, you get much greater tempo control in midi sequencers like Cubase, but the notation tools are pretty limited.

Again, thanks for the feedback. As for Justin, well, in all honesty, it's not just him who prompted this thread's placement and the disclaimers. There's a certain mindset here (certainly not limited to here), so I figure I may as well avoid needless friction.

It's a shame, but I think that writing orchestral/classical music for a long time does turn you into a bit of a musical snob! However, there's no need to be a Justin Tokke-esque, patronising little git, even if you think you're the next Mozart!

I have a question. As it's helpful to know somebodies musical background when commenting on their music, how many years have you been writing orchestral music, and specifically your non-experimental stuff? (I remember you said something about doing experimental stuff before right?)

My advice would be that you should always aim for a level of accessibility, but I would try to incorporate a few harmonic ideas from composers like Rachmaninov, Tschaikovsky, Wagner etc. Although please note I mean for you to be influenced by these composers, not to steal from them! Matt Bellamy for example - although a rock/pop artist - is obviously influenced a lot by the romantic period especially Rachmaninov as we said before!

^ Hmm, I have a pretty terrible memory, but I believe this is my general history regarding music in general, measured by age:

9 - 11: Played violin in elementary school; very basic stuff; no private lessons.

12 - 14: Quit violin; did nothing to replace it.

15: Started guitar. Just your typical, no-talent, tab-reading foo', yo.

15: Started writing "rock" songs, both acoustic and eventually electric.

15: Enrolled in two guitar classes at my high school; learned how to read music, but didn't get much else done. Pretty awful classes...

16: Started piano and enrolled in a class at my high school; first time I'd read sheet music since elementary school.

17: Took a summer music theory class at a "local" high school - I learned very little, but I wrote my first orchestral composition (and oddly enough it sounds like I knew what I was doing, even though I didn't). Every morning I had to bike uphill five miles to get there by 7:30am, so my thighs got a good work out as well. \m/

17: Took AP Music Theory (and worked my ass off; the prerequisite was around 5 to 10 years of piano or voice, and I had only one year of piano; amazingly I was able to catch up and was one of the better students in the class, with the exceptions of sight-singing and dictation *ugh*). Mostly continued writing "rock" music, but incorporated more sophisticated "music theory" concepts.

18: Started with a string quartet that I eventually arranged for orchestra, and thus started my period of writing solely orchestral material. Started listening to classical music as an enthusiast rather than as a casual listener.

19: Just turned 19 less than two months ago. Been quite busy with school ever since...

Anyways, it's funny you mention Matt Bellamy. Around the time I was 16, I became a huge fan of Muse (and eventually became obsessed for the next two or so years). I studied a lot of his music, and to be honest, I'd say Matt Bellamy has probably been my biggest musical influence - not necessarily in how the music "sounds", but rather in the artistic beliefs from which the compositional process is derived.

Very interesting and insightful to hear your background, but also wonder if we might get some insight and your thoughts on the critique so that we may help you better the song. As it is now, it's charming, but can get rather boring when all you do is double the same thing in multiple instruments. Let's see if we can find a way to take this charming idea and turn it into a full-fledged piece!

WOW Really good! I liked it! Keep up the good work!