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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Oct 26 2006, 3:34 PM

Intermediate Composer
Group: Members
Joined: 17-May 06
Posts: 184
Member Number: 840
Question #1

Hey,

Too cool - this thing is already off the ground! May have to make seperate folders now to distinguish between melodies, questions, motives, etc.! Either way, As the rules of the game are not yet established - I have posted four seperate files. They are three proposed models of how we could possibly proceed. So, here are a few more tentative rules for the game

Version No. 1 - File No. 1
This Is Simply My 2 Bar Phrase in Reply to Letehn. When a sufficient Number of People have replied to Letehn's original phrase with their own versions, we could then vote for the best one, and then continue along with the melody as it goes. This polling however seems cumbersome and time consuming. It will however, maintain that we are all working on a single melody - and sticking to the rules of the game. It is also undecided as to how many bars each person is to add. The general rule is that each person gets the same amount of bars so as to ensure fairness. However, an interesting alternative would be if the number of bars allowed doubles each time the melody progresses. Therefore from a 2 bar reply, you can then give a 4 bar re-reply, and so it continues multiplying - a scary prospect - but it would allow greater variance and individual flare to differ more widely - which will be where the fun lies most likely Have a think about it

Version No. 2 - File No. 2
In this version I have prefixed Letehn's Phrase and !Mark!'s reply to my own reply to Letehn's Phrase. This essentially repeats the core phrase over again, but then varies it again. I have also made a small variance to the end of !Mark!'s phrase so as to add greater continuinty. This is a good technique if one is looking at seeing the variety of ways of responding to the same question, in the context of other responses. It also reinforces the central 'theme' or 'motive' or whatever you musicians call it () which can give the piece a great deal of structure and logic. There is however the problem of it becoming very bland and over-used, and it may not be suitable to everyone who is trying out this game. Worth considering.

Version No. 3 - File No. 3
In this version it is Letehn's original phrase, !Mark!'s reply following by my own reply to the original phrase, not to !Mark!'s phrase. This allows you to compare the different versions to the original melody but fails in terms of continuity because there is not the said follow on from the reply. It is more of consecutive answers to an original question. Alternatively, you could see it as raising a new question of its own. It really depends upon how well the composer has left the phrase, if it is cadence or can be continued, etc. etc. There should also be the general rule of flexibility with the final note of the 2nd bar - to allow the next composer in line to adapt his style to the final beat of the bar preceeding it - also adding to the continuity. I have changed the last quaver of !Mark!'s phrase for example so the entry into my own phrase isn't too abrupt. This isn't a bad version but as the melody gets longer it may suffer for over-originality and not enough continuity.

Version No. 4 - File No. 4
In this version, I have made a completely seperate reply, which is not a reply to Letehn's original phrase but instead to !Mark!'s reply. It gives somewhat more continuity, but it really does carry away from Letehn's original theme - but it does remain within the key of A Minor. Nevertheless, someone may decide to bring it back to Letehn's original theme, or continue with mine, or return to Mark's - allowing infinite complexity, compositional freedom, and the ability to carry the conversation in the direction which suits you but also suits the pattern of the entire work. This is my preferred model, but I think there should be some general consensus before we proceed with making this game official.

These are my contributions. I'm excited about this new game! I hope you are too. I look forward to seeing everyone have their go and share in our masterpiece lol. All the best,

Pravin

P.S
I already recommend posting in addition to midi files, files from other softwares; pictures of the score; etc. as is being currently done. Midi can reproduce the sound but may mess up the score when being extracted, as I'm sure your all aware. Anyway....carry on....

NB: I think in the interests of giving due deferrence to the composers who contribute to the melodies you should organize your file names as I have done below, or at least make reference to them in your post in the consecutive order that they appear in the music. It will also allow the next person along to distinguish what they would like to reply to from the mass of replies.
Attached Files
File Type: mid Q&A1-Letehn-Upstart.mid (457 Bytes, 11 views)
File Type: mid Q&A1-Letehn-Mark-Letehn-Upstart.mid (748 Bytes, 11 views)
File Type: mid Q&A1-Letehn-Mark-Upstart.mid (595 Bytes, 11 views)
File Type: mid Q&A1-Letehn-Mark-UpstartNo2.mid (627 Bytes, 14 views)

All music files uploaded by this user
__________________
"Some Beauties yet, no Precepts can declare,
For there's a Happiness as well as Care.
Musick resembles Poetry, in each
Are nameless Graces which no Methods teach,
And which a Master-Hand alone can reach.
If, where the Rules not far enough extend,
(Since Rules were made but to promote their End)
Some Lucky LICENCE answers to the full
Th' Intent propos'd, that Licence is a Rule."

- Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, I.141-149
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Oct 26 2006, 7:37 PM

Elite Composer
Group: Members
Joined: 30-October 05
Posts: 1,424
Member Number: 280
hey, this game seems nice but we are talking about linear questions and replies, but what about harmony? are we trying to build together a long melodic line and later harmonizing it???? i am afraid have not understood the point........
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Brazilian amateur and self-taught composer, composing since 2002.

music:
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 12:06 AM

Intermediate Composer
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Joined: 17-May 06
Posts: 184
Member Number: 840
Question #1

Hi Frantz,

Yes, although I know your itching to harmonize , the current game is only to carry the melodic phrase in a linear pattern. When it reaches a particular length - perhaps 32 bars, or something similar - it can then be free for harmonization. You should see my post under 'New Ideas for Games' for alternative versions.

As I suggested there - an interesting alternative game would be to do the same thing, except say - to write a bass part and a treble part - either a duet or a piano piece - that is then harmonized. Or alternatively - to have a rhythymic/repeating bass line, or arpeggio, and then to have melodic variance over the top of it. The ideal version (but also, quite time consuming) of this game would be to have people writing little phrases in response to one anothers that they themselves harmonize over about 4 - 10 bars, and over say 4 - 8 instruments. The number of instruments and the type of instruments would have to remain a constant, as would the number of bars, but this would also give far greater compositional freedom. At the moment, as I'm sure your confusion warrants, it appears to be fairly limited with only melodic variance. This has prompted a new idea for a game for me!

The Cadenza Game
As we are experimenting with pure melodies - perhaps we could have a competition or game to write alternative solo parts for either already famous works, or works of people who have posted on young composers, or something similar. It may be difficult to do so - but it is yet another suggestion . I really should be studying....lol Ciao for now,

Pravin
__________________
"Some Beauties yet, no Precepts can declare,
For there's a Happiness as well as Care.
Musick resembles Poetry, in each
Are nameless Graces which no Methods teach,
And which a Master-Hand alone can reach.
If, where the Rules not far enough extend,
(Since Rules were made but to promote their End)
Some Lucky LICENCE answers to the full
Th' Intent propos'd, that Licence is a Rule."

- Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, I.141-149
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 2:50 AM

Elite Composer
Group: Members
Joined: 30-October 05
Posts: 1,424
Member Number: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstart View Post
Hi Frantz,

Yes, although I know your itching to harmonize , the current game is only to carry the melodic phrase in a linear pattern. When it reaches a particular length - perhaps 32 bars, or something similar - it can then be free for harmonization. You should see my post under 'New Ideas for Games' for alternative versions.

As I suggested there - an interesting alternative game would be to do the same thing, except say - to write a bass part and a treble part - either a duet or a piano piece - that is then harmonized. Or alternatively - to have a rhythymic/repeating bass line, or arpeggio, and then to have melodic variance over the top of it. The ideal version (but also, quite time consuming) of this game would be to have people writing little phrases in response to one anothers that they themselves harmonize over about 4 - 10 bars, and over say 4 - 8 instruments. The number of instruments and the type of instruments would have to remain a constant, as would the number of bars, but this would also give far greater compositional freedom. At the moment, as I'm sure your confusion warrants, it appears to be fairly limited with only melodic variance. This has prompted a new idea for a game for me!

The Cadenza Game
As we are experimenting with pure melodies - perhaps we could have a competition or game to write alternative solo parts for either already famous works, or works of people who have posted on young composers, or something similar. It may be difficult to do so - but it is yet another suggestion . I really should be studying....lol Ciao for now,

Pravin

mmmmmm ok, i got the point and that's ok. i'll try to expand the melody posted here. and i find it much more interesting your new Cadenza Game. very good idea! we could make a poll to choose the first piece to be worked.

cheers!
__________________
Brazilian amateur and self-taught composer, composing since 2002.

music:
[http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID =544908]

photo:
[http://tetraktys.multiply.com/photos]
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 2:52 AM

Elite Composer
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Joined: 30-October 05
Posts: 1,424
Member Number: 280
well, i suggest a melody by Haendel or Bach for adding new parts! let's see what people think about!
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Brazilian amateur and self-taught composer, composing since 2002.

music:
[http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID =544908]

photo:
[http://tetraktys.multiply.com/photos]
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 3:00 AM

Elite Composer
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Joined: 30-October 05
Posts: 1,424
Member Number: 280
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Brazilian amateur and self-taught composer, composing since 2002.

music:
[http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID =544908]

photo:
[http://tetraktys.multiply.com/photos]
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 5:14 AM

Mark's Avatar

Morally Deplorable
Group: Editors
Joined: 14-September 06
Posts: 5,288
Member Number: 1467
some confusion seems to have arisen, i don't see letehn's phrase anywhere in frantz's or in any of upstart's. I wrote the first two bar phrase and one answer to it, i posted a jpg on the first page of the first phrase then did my own answer to. letehn did post a phrase but not the one that's being used at the moment because it was several voices and we are just working with linier melody at the moment.

Mark
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There is not a single post by you in which you don't sound terribly british, Mark.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 6:08 AM

Intermediate Composer
Group: Members
Joined: 17-May 06
Posts: 184
Member Number: 840
Question #1

Yep,

Your right. I completely buggered it up. What a total fool I am! Lol. Well, at least I have discussed the principles of this game adequately enough - but I definitely completely forgot Letehn's original phrase, mistaking it for !Mark!'s question, and !Mark!'s reply to his own question as his reply to what I thought was Letehn's original phrase, but his own I'm sure I've just made it all the more confusing.

But yes, Letehn's phrase is much more challenging! I can see this breaking out in a 'Joplinian' Ragtime Sadly I am not skilled enough at the piano, let alone composition, to do justice to what my imagintion would want (as yet). I'll give it a go though. For the time being - Let us maintain !Mark!'s phrase and answer as the original phrase and answer in Question 1#, and continue Letehn's in a seperate thread entitled Question 2#. Any takers?

Pravin

P.S
Frantz, your only allowed two bars Sorry but them's the rules
__________________
"Some Beauties yet, no Precepts can declare,
For there's a Happiness as well as Care.
Musick resembles Poetry, in each
Are nameless Graces which no Methods teach,
And which a Master-Hand alone can reach.
If, where the Rules not far enough extend,
(Since Rules were made but to promote their End)
Some Lucky LICENCE answers to the full
Th' Intent propos'd, that Licence is a Rule."

- Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, I.141-149
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Oct 27 2006, 1:08 PM

Elite Composer
Group: Members
Joined: 30-October 05
Posts: 1,424
Member Number: 280
ok, simply cut 2 bars off
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Brazilian amateur and self-taught composer, composing since 2002.

music:
[http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID =544908]

photo:
[http://tetraktys.multiply.com/photos]
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Oct 28 2006, 8:33 PM

eldeni's Avatar

Visual Composer/guitarist
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Joined: 11-November 05
Posts: 121
Member Number: 317
i dont understand
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