Concerto "Sinfonia" in C Major for Strings and Basso Continuo

I thoroughly enjoyed hearing this piece.
It is very skillfully crafted in the baroque tradition, and presented in the most direct ways possible. The first movement is spirited and energetic, and sounds indistinguishable from Vivaldi.

The Slow movement is gorgeous. Very poignant harmonic progressions, and at one point reminds me of one very famous Purcell Aria (when i am laid in earth...). The use of a neopolitan chord twice before the end of this section I think is very effective.

After the slow movement, i was slightly disappointed with the finale. Exciting, but a little short I think. I would suggest adding at least one more section, and tidying up the end.

All in all, very, very fine work.

Originally Posted by Magna Carta

Thanks. People have commented on this as a very nice pastiche; someone had jokingly accused me of plagiarism once on this piece.

It does recall VERY closely and dangerously at least 2 of Vivaldi's string concertos, in form, movements organization, harmonic plan, texture... it is a great piece, but you might have gotten too close to the original model(s). And, I dare say, I believe it also the case with your Salve Regina and the fugal finale for your Gloria. It seems you got the tools: why don't you try something a bit less "obviously inspired by"? The language of the Baroque does STILL offer some room for original voices within its confinements.

Question: there are some "suspicious" parallel 8ves in the Allegro, but what about the viola part in the slow movement (measures 26-27)? Is that just a type-setting mistake (A or Ab)?

Do you have more concertos or vocal music? I'd love to hear them and prove me wrong!

Originally Posted by palestrina64

It does recall VERY closely and dangerously at least 2 of Vivaldi's string concertos, in form, movements organization, harmonic plan, texture... it is a great piece, but you might have gotten too close to the original model(s). And, I dare say, I believe it also the case with your Salve Regina and the fugal finale for your Gloria. It seems you got the tools: why don't you try something a bit less "obviously inspired by"?

For this piece, this was the point. I probably should mention that the outer movements (1 & 3) were composed first intentionally as a pastiche, hoping that they would be performed at a public congregation of school officials in the city, while remaining anonymous. When I was told it would be performed in a concert instead of simply incidental music by a quartet, I started composing a second movement (there are a different second movement, but it was just a simple and short Grave that linked the two), which I believe to have more originality

I'm not only composing the in Baroque — I have been working on a few pieces (though they will probably forever remain drafts :/) which are considerably minimalist. I have a few non-Baroque things posted as well here as well.

Originally Posted by palestrina64

Question: there are some "suspicious" parallel 8ves in the Allegro

When writing this, I didn't care too much about parallel fifths or octaves, because many Baroque composers (Italian or otherwise) didn't either. Like I said, this piece was intentionally composed as a pastiche.

Originally Posted by palestrina64

Nut what about the viola part in the slow movement (measures 26-27)? Is that just a type-setting mistake (A or Ab)?

Nope, this is intended.

Originally Posted by palestrina64

Do you have more concertos or vocal music? I'd love to hear them and prove me wrong!

I have two more pastiches to post (one of them being a concerto and choral psalm setting), and plus I'm overdue on an update to my Symphony draft (which I forgot the link to).

Originally Posted by Zetetic

Was a recording made? String writing can't be realised even vaguely believably by MIDI.

Yes, but I hesitate to advertise them, given the fact that they're by a high school orchestra. I've love to get a recording of this by a Baroque ensemble, though.

Originally Posted by echurchill

Do you contribute music to the Werner Icking Archive very often? I have found some very rare music there and am very grateful to have it.

I love WIMA as well; it's a resource that has proved invaluable for my learning and education.
The only contrib other than this that I've made is an orchestration of the Toccata and Fugue in D minor (BWV 565), which I will not credit as Bach because it's contested whether he composed it or not.

Thanks for your comments, all.

The piece was very enjoyable and professional sounding played with the new Garritan Instruments for Finale (without the continuo). By comparison, MIDI players massacre it. The information that it is a pastiche dampened my enthusiasm only slightly. It would be better to acknowledge that in the presentation. Standards in 2008 are higher than 1750 on such things.

When writing this, I didn't care too much about parallel fifths or octaves, because many Baroque composers (Italian or otherwise) didn't either. Like I said, this piece was intentionally composed as a pastiche. (Your quote)

I'm well aware of the "inconsistencies" of some music from the time, but they are indeed quite rare. Composers from the time DID care about those kinds of things, even a fast, matter-of-fact writer as Vivaldi was. Honestly, I'd love for you to point some straight-out 8ves or 5th's in Vivaldi's concertos of the kind you have in some passages
(the series of 8ves between vl.1 and vla in the last movement, mss. 5-12, especially because repeated, seems a little off). But that's me!

I just think that dismissing the whole "5th's and 8ves" problem for music written (then or now) during the Baroque and Classical period, by saying "they all did it" it's simply not fair and quite inaccurate. Whether today anybody cares or not it's another matter - personal taste. But you should consider that when you see those things in Bach, Vivaldi or Haendel (who cared), they are either justified or at least debatable. The real mistakes or "slips of the pen" are extremely rare - and some are due to printing mistakes or sloppy copyists anyway, like in the case of D. Scarlatti. Furthermore, frequent parallel 5th's & 8ves are ALWAYS dead giveaways that the music is not original from the time (not your case)...or the composer was an amateur (like those noblemen who cultivated music as an hobby). In all of these years I never came across a case which wasn't either one or the other (including my "sins of youth").

Don't get me wrong, I do still enjoy your music very much, of course, and to be honest, I don't know if I could have spotted the above 8ves after just one hearing! (the only really doubtful and notable upon first hearing is the unison across measure 1 & 2 in the slow movement, between vls. and vla., but that's mostly because the parts ARE in brief imitation with each other and one thing - counterpoint and independent parts - would negate the other - free orchestral "effect" of which Vivaldi was an innovator...it could be easily fixed anyway).

And, by the way (you could forget my nagging remarks above) the finale is perfect! Like many of those miniature finales in Vivaldi "concerti di ripieno".

With the title i was expecting to hear a Violino principale solo...in the adagio i would restrain from doubling violins 1 and 2 so severely...it makes it a bit dull...you should utilize every facet of each string section...seieng as to how you dont have many options with no soloist or the standard 2 corni and 2 oboi...

CHEERS!

Originally Posted by Jupiter41

With the title i was expecting to hear a Violino principale solo...in the adagio i would restrain from doubling violins 1 and 2 so severely...it makes it a bit dull...you should utilize every facet of each string section...seieng as to how you dont have many options with no soloist or the standard 2 corni and 2 oboi...

CHEERS!

"Concerto" was a very generic and flexible term then. The paring down of the two violins sections was Vivaldi's - and some other Italians' - signature.

THANK YOU...
but i need not a lesson in terms of the word CONCERTO...
Vivaldi paired 1sts and seconds so strictly?...
Please site an example!...
=)

« but i need not a lesson in terms of the word CONCERTO... »

You simply need lessons in composition and accessoirement, a brain wash =D

Originally Posted by Jupiter41

THANK YOU...
but i need not a lesson in terms of the word CONCERTO...
Vivaldi paired 1sts and seconds so strictly?...
Please site an example!...
=)

Hi. The only reason why I thought you didn't know it's because... I guess you didn't know that Vivaldi's concertos for strings without a solo instrument are sometimes called "concerti di ripieno", sometimes "sinfonie" (these are usually the more straight forward ones, with a sonorous - unisons, double/triple stops - beginning, an aria-like slow movement and a short-dash last movement - usually an AABB dance. In the sinfonias, vl.1 & 2 are often written on one staff. But there are many other examples of concertos (for solo instrument or just strings) where Vivaldi basically writes for a 3-part ensemble, and only here or there he divides the violins parts. Just look on line or go to a music store and leaf through some of his scores...
I guess Magna Carta should have called it "concerto OR sinfonia". Well...