start of a symphony 1. drift

Hi all! I've recently begun a new orchestral piece. It's been giving me some problems. I'm not sure which elements to focus on for the rest of the movement. I want the movement to be around 6 minutes or so, and be all in this dissonant, atonal-ish harmonic language that I've established so far. I have motives already - the brass fanfare that opens the movement gives me some nice thick chords to work with, the woodwind melody over the scratching strings, and the whole idea of C-F#, or any tritone. I want to build the movement up to more fanfares, and long string melodies built out of all the elements, but I don't know how to get there.

What I have so far is pretty much complete up until ms. 28. The strings should be supported by another element, maybe another ostinato figure, like what the strings had earlier. Maybe winds? The trumpet that comes in (that is barely audible in the mp3) might be doubled with high piccolo, or Eb clarinet? That will be the start of long, flowing string melodies to come later. But those 10 or so ms. are not complete.

Any ideas on how I can continue this? Any help is appreciated.

(check below for update!)

Your mp3 link doesn't seem to be working.

Hmmm... the mp3 worked for me. This is a really cool piece! I actually don't think you need another element in m. 28; i think that it works well as a place to cut down suddenly on texture and rhythmic density. I like the sudden change, and having a chance to catch my breath, so to speak. I do think that doubling the trumpet would be nice; the trumpet might end up being a bit disjunct due to the wide range. Adding a woodwind that is better at connecting leaps would set the stage better for long, flowing string melodies, i think.

What about starting one of your string melodies soon? It could start softly and simply and build to a climax, where you can resume your fanfares and intenseness? Just a thought. Or maybe have a section here continuing these string swells. They might make a good drifting-over-waves mood, if that makes sense.

In any case, this is reeeeally great! I really look forward to seeing and hearing where it goes from here.

To Justin - the link seems to be working fine. Did you try 'save as'?

To Q.I.C. - Thanks for listening! And also for the great suggestions - your suggestion of adding a woodwind to the trumpet is perfect. A clarinet, I think, would be a very nice way to lead into winding, drunken string melodies. I'll definitely try that.

Yes - I think I want to lead into the strings with tpt. and clar., and have a whole section built by these clashing, winding lines, growing and growing up to bring the fanfares back in. You and I seem to have similar compositional styles, methinks.

Thanks again!

Got it to work this time. While the piece is way out of my style preference, as a piece within the modern style, it's good. The use of 2nds seemed a bit overdone especially when they are just juxtiposed on each other e.g. in the horns. More interesting dissonences result from open chords than closed tight intervals; Messaien is a good example of this. Keep it up!

Oingo,

I think this piece has a lot of potential. I like the harmonies you've used. Wonderfully dissonant. I personally would have liked to have seen more of a melody in the section starting at bar 13 but that's more of a personal preference than anything else. I personally would have scored a slow, gradually ascending melody in the low brass but it's your piece not mine.

With the section starting at bar 28, I would definitely support the addition of an ostinato pattern like the strings had earlier, possibly in the bassoons/low brass? At the moment that section lacks a sense of real movement. This is probably partly due to the fact that I can't hear the trumpet (I agree with you, double it on piccolo) but I think that the piece would start to sound a bit too disjointed if the wonderful sense of motion you built up in the strings were stopped so soon. If I were you I would proceed to built this up to another fanfare, but stop it quite abruptly. It might be an idea to continually return to the fanfare throughout the movement - you could make it one of those obsessive themes that never seems to go away! Just a suggestion though, you can completely disregard all my suggestions if you want.

Keep up the good work!

- ClassicalSax

Thanks for the comments, and for listening!!

Here is an update - I added some harmonies on top of the trumpet and flute melody where I left off, then started a build up with the strings.

mp3

wow, those pulsing chordal things in the second half of your wip are REALLY REALLY COOL! I really like what you've done there! Also, the super low "resolution" to that section sounds REALLY cool--dark, foreboding, awesome. Nice job man

Nick, I love what you've got, but be a dear and optimise the score!

The start was a little stark, but then it settles in, and I really like it - enjoy the rising figure in the tpts. Control of the orchestra is pretty good - I enjoyed it.
There were some things I was hearing which aren't in the score. Not sure if that's Sibelius or what.

Good start - waiting to hear more!

Hmm...I always hate the look of an optimized score, especially when it doesn't really save that many pages. I tend to write for lots of instruments at a time, so I find having all the rests makes it easier to read. Maybe that's just me? I dunno, I might optimize it if it makes sense once the whole thing's done. But I ended up NOT optimizing my previous orchestra piece, as it only saved 2 pages and had lots of clutter and a lot of half-pages and whatnot. I'd rather just have the rests!

Thanks for listening!

By the by, Sibelius can't handle crescendoes on held notes very well - that's those blips and stutters you were hearing in the winds and brass towards the end, Doug. Those chords are supposed to have a constant swell to them, and not the pulsing which you seemed to like!

I have more! I'm up to the second section, of which I've decided there will be 3 of. Each one will start with a brass fanfare just like the opening, but adding an element on each time. This one has tutti string pizzicatti to anti-accent the brass. I'll post once I've started the actual section, which will involve quiet strings and woodwind solos.