Symphony #1498 "Line in Woooooow!"

Originally Posted by Dev

But the "composition" in question (jose's boxes) shows absolutely no musical knowledge whatsoever. ...there is just absolutely nothing about this picture that suggests the "composer" was a musician.

That's because Josepablo is an asshole whose sarcastic mockery of the genre is quite offensive.

Originally Posted by Dev

Which is why I have a problem with it; a clever non-musician could produce the same exact work and by adamently defending his "creative vision" still be considered a composer.

They'd never be taken seriously...just as Jose here should have been laughed off the forum.

You thought I was specifically defending Jose?! No way!! I was defending the concepts he so rudely dredged up.

Originally Posted by robinjessome in several previous posts

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Jose is being a facetious and pretentious ass in what he's done, and I hope he never comes back
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The problem arises when assholes like Jose here feel it's alright to make derogatory, sarcastic and facetious comments in the guise of satire.
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I can't believe I'm defending that lame-ass charlatan Jose
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it was bullshit because the guy (Jose) is a charlatan who's poking fun at the concept, in a very shrewd and savvy manner.

Seeee!!!!

Originally Posted by Dev

But the "composition" in question (jose's boxes) shows absolutely no musical knowledge whatsoever. There is no evidence of theory, instrumentation, or even things like pitch, tone, duration - there is just absolutely nothing about this picture that suggests the "composer" was a musician. Which is why I have a problem with it; a clever non-musician could produce the same exact work and by adamently defending his "creative vision" still be considered a composer. Why should a painter be given the same job title as Beethoven?

Cuz it's a crazy, crazy world. And that's how the modern art world works now.

Certainly, if I write a score of music, and someone comes around and says it's a nice graphical piece of art, rather than music, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would've been the artist here rather the "composer" in this case. It depends who appreciates what, in what way.

I personally don't agree much with Jose's methods here on the forum, but I do defend the option to do what he's doing since to me it's a music score all the same so long as someone calls it as such.

HOWEVER, he's not POSTING ANY MP3s and I tire of that bullshit. He is also not posting ANYTHING ELSE other than the damn painting/score/thing so it also annoys me that there's not even a context to look at this from.

But regardless, I've been personally very interested in musical notation systems and all that. To me, your entire score could be "Look out the window" and that's it and it'd be OK. It'd be interesting to see what a performer does with such instructions, certainly.

Sort of like process music, but more vague. However, I personally like to elaborate more, such as "Look out the window, if there are trees, use them as basis for your rhythm. If there are cars, use them as basis for your tone selections" and so that sort of thing.

Look at the type of notation you'd write to do something like Cage's imaginary landscapes nr.4 (with the radios!) or Reich's pendulum music. It's pretty much non-standard and you'll probably end up with numbers and graphs and that sort of junk. Which, honestly, is just fine by me. The journals for Stockhausen's electronic pieces look really cool (and the pieces sound awesome imo.)

I at least attempt to respect here Jose for the fact that, well, he's trying at least. SOMETHING. I don't know what it is really, but well it's something. It'd be even better if he posted goddamn sound files to go with that something.

Originally Posted by SSC

HOWEVER, he's not POSTING ANY MP3s and I tire of that bullshit. He is also not posting ANYTHING ELSE other than the damn painting/score/thing so it also annoys me that there's not even a context to look at this from.

To be fair, there are at least five threads in which Josepablo has posted mp3's or midi files of his compositions. Of course, some of them seem a bit like something that was scribbled down in two minutes, but others do show compositorial effort. The problem is more the great quantity of his posted pieces combined with an apparent nonchalance, not to say carelessness, in the creation and presentation thereof (and in his comments on pieces of other composers). This just isn't very beneficial, neither for his pieces, nor for discussing them on an online forum.

If these posts are indeed meant as sarcasm, as Robin said, I certainly fell for it. The "pictures" like this one here definitely seem to have been created with some care in any case (in contrast to the BANG! stuff), which is why I take them seriously.

Originally Posted by Gardener

To be fair, there are at least five threads in which Josepablo has posted mp3's or midi files of his compositions. Of course, some of them seem a bit like something that was scribbled down in two minutes, but others do show compositorial effort. The problem is more the great quantity of his posted pieces combined with an apparent nonchalance, not to say carelessness, in the creation and presentation thereof (and in his comments on pieces of other composers). This just isn't very beneficial, neither for his pieces, nor for discussing them on an online forum.

If these posts are indeed meant as sarcasm, as Robin said, I certainly fell for it.

Well, I don't know. He did post mp3s and midis in other threads but he still never said anything else. So the whole context thing and saying stuff, or at least presenting the piece, is still valid. I don't know why he would do it like that, he's either too young to have an idea of what he's doing, or simply silly.

Or it's all comedy, which I doubt...

Jose must think we are all too "plebian" to hear his music

So we're all in agreement that jose's work is horseshit then?

Also, what type of graphical score WOULD be appropriate? And why is it that in one picture it's apparent that the composer is musically well-versed, whereas in others (like this), you claim it's obviously a mockery? Or another way, which pictures convey musical knowledge?

At best, I think he was trying to satirically point out Dev's point - that any no-talent hack could produce results passable to the untrained eye.

We've all seen paintings in museums and thought "I could do that"...

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Same thing.

Originally Posted by Dev

So we're all in agreement that jose's work is horseshit then?

Also, what type of graphical score WOULD be appropriate? And why is it that in one picture it's apparent that the composer is musically well-versed, whereas in others (like this), you claim it's obviously a mockery? Or another way, which pictures convey musical knowledge?

It's the way it was presented. Honest and serious improvisors or composers working in this medium simply wouldn't have gone about it this way...GENERALLY. Perhaps he is some really pretentious genius. But I doubt it.

Originally Posted by robinjessome

It's the way it was presented. Honest and serious improvisors or composers working in this medium simply wouldn't have gone about it this way...GENERALLY. Perhaps he is some really pretentious genius. But I doubt it.

So you're saying, if jose had posted this and along with it explained his notation system or provided some instruction with it pertaining to how it should be played, you would then consider this a score and him a composer (perhaps not a good one but a composer nonetheless)?

Isn't that what I've been saying?

Originally Posted by Dev

So you're saying, if jose had posted this and along with it explained his notation system or provided some instruction with it pertaining to how it should be played, you would then consider this a score and him a composer (perhaps not a good one but a composer nonetheless)?

Isn't that what I've been saying?

No...He needn't have explained a system, nor given any instructions...remember, there doesn't necessarily need to be any system. Perhaps if he had simply been nicer, and explained himself and the intent behind his "compositions".

Originally Posted by robinjessome

No...He needn't have explained a system, nor given any instructions...remember, there doesn't necessarily need to be any system. Perhaps if he had simply been nicer, and explained himself and the intent behind his "compositions".

That's just where I can't agree with you at all - the system MUST be explained. If there's no instruction, no explanation for how to read this as a musical score, then it isn't a score, it is simply art that can be interpreted by a performer if he or she so chooses.

Even if the "system" is just the sentence "interpret this however you like," though that's not MUCH better...