Symphony in C Incomplete

This is the log. Please help me make it a wood carving.

I would say that my writing style is very similar to a blend between beethoven, dvorak, and brahms.
It always changes, though.
The form is loose sonata form in an inventive style, with heavy use of chromaticism and frequent modulation.

A theme: :40 ........ developed heavily in the third fourth of the piece Dotted quarter note-eigth rythym.
B theme: :52 ....... developed throughout the whole piece really... 4 quarter notes
C theme: 1:47 ..... when it is developed I do away with the long tied notes and place rests instead
D theme: 6:10 ....... really a meld of the A and C themes, with B in the background.

Starts with: introduction (:00)
exposition (:44)
statement of theme (2:23)
development of C theme intro: (3:08)
development of C theme (with hints of the A (4:25) and B(3:38)themes hidden inside) (3:38)
brief recap to original woodwind chorales (5:13)
reference to original A theme with foreshadowing (5:50)
introduction of D theme (6:10)
brief reference to intro to lead into the development of the A and B themes (7:06)
development of A and B themes (7:22)
VERY brief return to the D theme... sort of like a, "Hey, keep listening..." statement (8:51)
back to the development of B theme (9:31)
series of textural and harmonic changes leading to recapitulation (9:41)
Recapitulation:
recapitulation of A theme (10:01)
recapitulation of B theme (10:09) and (10:28)
chromaticism references (11:04)
restatement of theme (11:14)
restatement of D theme with A, B, and C themes scattered throughout (11:37)
finale (12:21) statement of A theme

total time: 12:28 min

first movement mp3: Symphony No. 1 in C major - Allegro Ma Non Troppo y Spensierato - eSnips, share anything

second movement mp3: Symphony No. 1 in C major - II - Andante con fuoco - eSnips, share anything

ill put this in the orchestral works when i add bowings and articulation.

I liked it, if you had the score I would be even more happy, I want to see the instrumentation, progression the like,

if it doesn't bother you much of course..ah very short clip I liked it a lot so please!?

Mael,
Once again, you're stretching my ear in a good way! I think my comments are of the "picayune" variety...
They mostly concern very small harmonic changes.

-5:13--the I-iii-II7-V progression seemed a little "unconvincing" (when I use that word, I always mean it didn't "pull my ear along;" it didn't seem like, "ah, yes; that's where it should go." Of course, you can set up one expectation and then surprise the listener, but this didn't seem like an "oh, wow!" surprise either). In some sense, it's just my opinion, but also iii-II isn't a very strong harmonic motion. The fact that the motion is just tutti chords here makes the strength of the harmonic direction even more important; I'd try for even stronger.

-4:46--The 7th chord and descending chromatic line that signal the wrapping up of this small section (was this some of the C theme?) came a little too quickly for my taste. I'd loved to have heard a little longer initial statement of this theme, even if you intend to develop it later. This really is totally preference, so take it or leave it.

-5:29--The Bb7 here is a nice surprise, but the phrase afterward continues as if it didn't exist. It seems to me like a brief trip to a feeling of Eb as tonic would complete the idea and make it sound less like an excited outburst, which seems incongruous with the majestic mood here. If you're going for humorous or even just slightly whimsical, then I think it works.

5:57--In this 3rd statement of the phrase (which began at 5:50), a very classical thing would be a deceptive cadence to F (VI). The F would replace the d chord (I believe this is the 4th measure of the phrase). Right now your harmony is iv-i-V-iv and then another phrase iv-i-V. I'm saying to do: iv-i-V-VI and then iv-i-V, perhaps with something else in the middle (possibly vi?). The 2 iv's next to each other and the movement from V-iv is slightly weaker to my ear. One OTHER possibility here would be to cut the 1st phrase short, having iv-i-V and then starting the next phrase as an interruption, without the 4th chord in the first phrase. This might be a nice surprise!

-6:11ff--Here, the winds have several countermelodic theme "snippets" that seem jarring against the main harmony. For the first wind entry following the first string phrase (6:11-12), an underlying harmony of N-V-i would fit closer with the wind fragment, provided you raise the 4th note of the fragment (a 7th). However, this Beethovenish cadence formula is probably too final sounding for the 1st statement of the sequence, so I'd tailor your wind fragments to match the main harmony you have, which works nicely. If you're going intentionally for the dissonance, that's fine; the "rub" seems a little out of character with what you've done elswhere so far, however.

-6:24-5--Wow . You stretched my ears here! The interesting change from EM to C can definitely work, I think. Try to listen objectively to see how you might make even this novel movement more strong. One suggestion I'd make is to keep the lower voices on E, even while the middle voices alter the harmony, until the melody reaches the C on the next downbeat. This will keep some continuity from where you "came from" to where you're "going."

-6:29--I can tell you were earnest and passionate here, as you said. Even after listening several times, the high register spot in the violins still sounds "not-quite-right." Even though there's a suspension, I don't think that's the issue. Here's a couple possibilities to keep the passion and minimize any possible oddity in the sound:
1) keep an extra measure of vi (like you have on the measure with the high register vln. suspension) to keep some continuity after the startling violin sound (ie, spread out the changes: first violin dissonance, then a measure of "buffer" before another harmonic change). The extra minor may also help keep the passion up. You could then move to IV and ii or V.
2) if you really prefer just 1 measure of vi (where the vlns. have the high suspension), then make sure the inner voices don't anticipate the change to F early. Because I heard what sounded like suggestions of F in the inner winds on that very same measure (w/ vln suspension), my ears were overwhelmed by too many changes, as I said before.



I had lots of things I liked, especially some of the continuity with variety in your development of previous melodic ideas, but I figured I'd just stick to the picky suggestions. Hope I'm not being to prescriptive. Only take what you like/what is helpful.
Brooks

This score is orchestrated for: 3 flutes, 2 oboes, 3 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 3 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, full orchestra and timpani with optional bass drum

Mael,
For all the time I've promised to update my comments, I don't have a lot to say. After I collected the comments below, I listened once more to get the overall picture. Your interesting harmonic turn (which then returned to C again) after the big climax at 3 minutes seemed far too short for a development. I assumed that you intend this entire section to be your exposition. If so, it certainly engages my interest as a listener--far from simplistic.
So: you're coming up with well-developed and coherent melodic and harmonic ideas. I'll just mention what struck me as particularly good and worth noting for future use (can't really do much else ).

Noteworthy:
-2:52ff--You took me in an unexped direction by the harmonic change here, and the following triumphant build to the returning chords (this time w/ ii as the third one!) really was just that--the cadence extension prolonged things just enough to be really satisfying. Holding the tutti chord through the chorale was another nice development from the beginning.
-1:31--I like the chord change you made here from the previous version; you set up the V so that it didn't come out of nowhere
-1:55--I think I heard more fragments of melodic material here than in the prev. version; if so, bravo for continuing to strengthen your supporting voices and knit the orchestration even more tightly. Keep your ears open for more places where you can give melodic interest to lower voices (you're already doing this a lot).
-2:12--here was a change in the previous harmony by adding a 7th--in the winds I think--of which I'm not totally convinced. Like your other changes, this could potentially make the progression more effective (have more of a "push"), but I might sustain the 7th longer. It seemed you let it drop out of the texture instead of continuing to the next change, which negated its power.
-3:30--this following section was very good in my opinion, because you employed creative harmonic movement (taking a new "turn" to G by way of e minor, then immediately returning to C) while using more melodic fragments. Once again, you have new united with old, which expands the section in an organic way. I have a hard time doing this sometimes, but you did it quite well!
-3:53--these must have been those wonderful cross-rhythms you were promising earlier. Very effective, creating an exciting surge forward by means of the interlocking rhythms.


What else can I say? I can't wait to see what interesting ideas you have in the development.
Keep up the excellent work!
Brooks

brooks: about what you have said:

The change from the chorale to the string entry has already been fixed in the way you suggested
The two themes introduced in the chorale are exactly what they are: 2 main themes. At the very end of the piece, the themes are fused together. From the beginning of the piece to where I stopped is exposition only. There is very little development. The full tutti just before the end is the statement of the theme.

I also fixed many of the fragmented vii's and I added dynamics. All of the sections have been semi-connected and the chromaticism has been exploited.
The middle and end of piece don't have dynamics, so you, as the listener, needs to imagine where they go correctly. Also, I never write timpani parts until the end.

Brooks: you have to re-review it just don't do new posts

Update version: 2/23/08 late

Good Good Good!, I Realy liked the opening, very clever to do a opening like that getting everyones atention. And the little baroque feel with the flutes was very good, got right into my heart. Rest of the themes are nice. This will be a very good symphony.

You are good, looking forward to hear the work finished!

you know it's special if i'm commenting. lulz. its pretty good. i like it. but the way it plays reminds me of those classic games. when they were just being able to sound on it. like the first zelda and stuff. (not the song, just the sounds)

This is very nice. You are coming off to a great start with this Symphony. Keep up the good work!

Well, I'm not a huge Beethoven fan as I've already mentioned but I did like this. Definetly is a good start and considering you're only 16, a very admirable effort. You have a strong sense of melody and with the exception of around the four minute mark, I found this interesting the entire time. I hope everything goes well and I would be interested in hearing it when it's finished.