Who is, in your opinion, the world's worst reputable composer?

Originally Posted by Gardener

I'll gladly step into the ring both for Brahms and Koopman! I'm sure there were more than those we wanted to fight about but I forgot who.

Actually I think Brahms is ok. Sometimes. Koopman can still screw himself.

Brahms Violin Sonata No. 1 in G major

incredibly moving Brahms, I'm playing it in a recital soon

Originally Posted by kvitske

Brahms!!! Definately Brahms! There are billions of composers I haven't heard yet, but Brahms is the only one that makes me fall asleep. If I were a Furby, I'd say: "Booooring!". I'm not a Furby but I still say "Booooring!" to Brahms...

NOoooooo!!! Brahms is Amazing!!! All composers have dull moments but I love Brahms and how he phrases his music its unlike many other composers.

Originally Posted by QcCowboy

I love the way people base their entire opinions on Williams' music on Star Wars, as if that was the only thing he ever wrote.

I can literally say I have heard just about every single note John Williams wrote, both for the screen and for the concert stage. And to base an opinion on that single series of soundtracks is as faulty as basing an assessment of Webern on his Passacaglia opus 1 for orchestra.

And going by the age of many of the users of this forum, I suspect too many are basing their "star wars" opinions on the prequel trilogy soundtracks, which are, in my opinion, among Williams' most feeble attempts at film scoring.

By the way, Williams did far more in the Star Wars scores than copy a few measures of Holst and change the time signature. Saying anything like that is simply a sign of pure ignorance on the matter.

Well said!!

Originally Posted by QcCowboy

I love the way people base their entire opinions on Williams' music on Star Wars, as if that was the only thing he ever wrote.

I can literally say I have heard just about every single note John Williams wrote, both for the screen and for the concert stage. And to base an opinion on that single series of soundtracks is as faulty as basing an assessment of Webern on his Passacaglia opus 1 for orchestra.

And going by the age of many of the users of this forum, I suspect too many are basing their "star wars" opinions on the prequel trilogy soundtracks, which are, in my opinion, among Williams' most feeble attempts at film scoring.

By the way, Williams did far more in the Star Wars scores than copy a few measures of Holst and change the time signature. Saying anything like that is simply a sign of pure ignorance on the matter.

I love his cello concerto! I think you've mentioned something about it before. I think he wrote a bassoon concerto too? If it is the one I'm thinking of, then I'm thinking of another great piece written by John Williams.

I think lots of composers have been called lots of things during the course of history. It doesn't really prove much. (I definitely agree with your appreciation of Brahms, but I don't see why there has to be a showdown with Mahler. Brahms and Mahler are something totally different, each with some very interesting aspects.)

Originally Posted by in rainbows 109

To those kids bashing Brahms, you'll appreciate him when you get older and realize that he's a lot better than Mahler and Holst.... Well, Holst at least, I think a lot of people are better than Holst. A lot of people on this site write better music than Holst.... Not that he didn't provide great music for the orchestral rep, not so much for band though, but isn't that the story of band anyway?

Anyway, judging from what I've been reading on this board, people bash on John Cage because they don't understand him, and I've seen bashing on Brahms because he's "boring" (I guess he doesn't have enough blatty trombone solis like Mahler and Tchaikovsky?) I really don't understand how one of the greats can just bashed like that with no real intelligent base. Christ, have you heard the piano concertos??? INCREDIBLE! Brahms symphonies are great as well.

No, see, the main problem with people bashing composers is they don't have enough information to even properly conduct a critique on them. Nevermind, of course, the fact that saying "When you grow older--" means absolutely nothing. I can as well say "When you grow older, you'll appreciate Jimi Hendrix and ditch all classical music" or "When you grow older, you'll know X and Y composers are the best, so now you're just a young ignorant fool."

I personally find Brahms to be rather stale sometimes, though I like some of his pieces, I'd much rather listen to Schumann (for example) or Hugo Wolf. The thing is, I've studied Brahms enough to get a good taste of what his music sounds like (to me) and so I think it's fine if I have an opinion about it. Likewise, because I've studied, I also know that there are a bunch of things he wrote that I really thought were cool.

No proper or well-studied opinion is black an white. It has nothing to do with "Growing older" unless that means actually studying composers and music altogether. People are generally happy to grow old listening to the same things their entire lives unless they feel it's simply not enough for them. I mean, it's not like its hard to find examples of people who die thinking Mozart is the greatest thing ever and thus they only listened to his music.

But the difference is, a composer shouldn't, can't, and must NOT be like that. A composer's opinion of something in the musical world should be one of the more complex and well-elaborated, because if you can't describe and elaborate on music then what the hell are you doing writing it?

And THAT surely comes with training and studying (which take time), but the attitude of responsibility probably should be there first or no matter how much studying goes on the person may still end up backwards.

Originally Posted by in rainbows 109

To those kids bashing Brahms, you'll appreciate him when you get older and realize that he's a lot better than Mahler and Holst.... Well, Holst at least, I think a lot of people are better than Holst. A lot of people on this site write better music than Holst.... Not that he didn't provide great music for the orchestral rep, not so much for band though, but isn't that the story of band anyway?

As for Holst, I personally do not find a lot of his works particularly captivating, but the planets alone is enough to qualify him as a great composer in my opinion.

Someone may disagree with me, but I think Béla Bartók is far too overrated and I don't like him at all.

EDIT: And when talking of single pieces, I dislike Beethoven's Grosse Fugue. I heard it in a concert last year and it went on and went on, there seemed to be no end! If Beethoven has an useless piece, it must be the Grosse Fugue.

"Grosse" Fuge. Perhaps it should be renamed as the "Gross" Fuge. Only one letter less.