Writing Key Signatures

Originally Posted by MusicManJ4

... I find Db and Gb to be my favorite keys, why are so many people afraid of using a key that happens to need a few sharps or flats?

You misinterpret me. I'm certainly not afraid of them. When I say I wouldn't be in an odd key for more than a few measures, I mean: I wouldn't be in any key for more than a few measures.

I may have four measures of Eb dorian (derived from Db Major) but my next key may be C lydian (based on D Major). There's no sense in changing my key signature.

Originally Posted by MusicManJ$

...writing in different keys even in [equal temperment] can bring out different tone colors from wind instruments (because of their acoustical nature), which is why I choose keys carefully.

Again, due to the nomadic nature of my key-centres, this isn't something that affects me. Of course I'll consider register and range, which affects the timbral qualities of any instrument...

I have to agree somewhat with Robin. I start off with no key signatures and use accidentals. Then the key signatures are added later if they make sense. Sometimes passages modulate so quickly that it doesn't make much sense to change key signatures for a bar or so. That might confuse the musicians. In these cases it's much clearer to use accidentals.

Originally Posted by robinjessome

You misinterpret me. I'm certainly not afraid of them.

I never accused you personnaly (sorry if it sounded that way), but there do seem to be a few people here and there that are blatently unaccoustomed to working with 'larger' key sigs.

Originally Posted by robinjessome

I may have four measures of Eb dorian (derived from Db Major) but my next key may be C lydian (based on D Major). There's no sense in changing my key signature.

Hmm... Maybe this is where I'm confused, are we talking practically atonal music here? I would have to say I'm sort of biased on that particular matter, I'm not all too fond of music with harmonic A.D.D., as I could never understand how one could change a key every measure or two (or three) and make the music sound focused, but that's just me. But in passing, though, which is what I gather you are talking about, I totally agree with you, as I never stay in a constantly changing pace for too long, but when it does happen, I just leave the key signature in what it was before the devolpment commenced. What I was saying is I would never write without defining a base key to work with.

I happen to be quite fond of the different church modes by the way, esp. dorian, mixolydian, and sometimes phrygian.

Originally Posted by MusicManJ4

I never accused you personnaly, but there do seem to be a few people here and there that are blatently unaccoustomed to working with 'larger' key sigs.

I see...and I tend to agree. I think this stems from players as composers - if a key is challenging for them as a musician, then they'll avoid it as a composer.

Originally Posted by MusicManJ4

Hmm...are we talking practically atonal music here?

No...

Originally Posted by MusicManJ4

I could never understand how you could change a key sig every measure or two (or three) and make the music sound focused, but that's just me.

It's not so much changing key often...more just changing the focus to a different modal tonal centre. If that makes sense...

Originally Posted by MusicManJ4

I'm not all too fond of music with harmonic A.D.D., as I could never understand how one could change a key every measure or two (or three) and make the music sound focused

Have you never analysed Bach?

I've never analyzed Bach, I play his tocattas, fugues, preludes, and ect. all the time, but I guess I've only been subjected to his 'simpler' works.

Try some of the fugues from the WTC, look at the harmony, that's harmonic ADD if I ever saw it, and it still sounds awesome

This is a kind of weird discussion...

Key signatures exist because they imply some kind of tonality, be it modal or major/minor. Even if, like Bartok, you invent a key signature (like A flat only) it implies some kind of hierarchical system, certain pitches having more importance than others. So if you're writing in a free non-tonal then it just doesn't make sense to use a key signature. Likewise if you're writing music where a certain tonality is briefly implied but does not define the pitch structure of the whole piece it's a good idea not to use a new key signature.

And of course in tonal music there are distant modulations, Ravels' piano concerto in G - whose second movement is written in E, briefly moves into D sharp major - an extremely awkward key to read and understand etc. But he doesn't change the key signature and sticks to sharps because it ultimately refelects the tonality of the movement. Changing key signature is intended to show a fundamental change in the tonal structure of a piece.

But if you're writing atonally, then KEY signature just doesn't come into it - the piece is not in a key and it can't be expected to apply.