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- Submitted: Jun 16 2011 11:36 AM
- Last Updated: Jun 16 2011 11:36 AM
- File Size: 18.31MB
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- Approved by: chopin
- Approved on: 16 June 2011 - 10:32 PM
- Genre: Contemporary
- Sub Genre: Neo-classicism
- Form: Symphony
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Symphony No. 2, Op. 22 1
1 Votes
This is my first symphony that I am really happy with, and is my favourite work of myself. The work is an attempt to return to the style of the early symphony - a shorter work in 3 movements - in contrast to the longer, 4 movement-symphonies. However, the tonal style of the symphony is in typical modern classical fashion. Considering this concept, the forms of the symphony are an allusion to popular forms used to great effect by other composers. The first movement is in a type of sonata form, with three sections roughly corresponding to the exposition, development and recapitulation of other sonata-form works. The middle movement is composed in ternary form. The third movement is again in sonata form, and utilises a simple fugue-like theme throughout the movement.
The three movements are:
1) Allegro moderato
2) Tranquillo e sempre sonore
3) Allegro vivo
As I am a self-trained, 18 year old composer with no composition experience or lessons, any feedback would be appreciated immensely!
The three movements are:
1) Allegro moderato
2) Tranquillo e sempre sonore
3) Allegro vivo
As I am a self-trained, 18 year old composer with no composition experience or lessons, any feedback would be appreciated immensely!
Firstly, congratulations are in order for completing such a large work. I certainly was not capable of producing nearly twenty minutes of music - music that does pretty much hang together as a whole - at the same age as you. Although there are quite a few aspects of this piece which could be improved, and some definite errors, it does contain some moments of real maturity and you clearly a have a good craft on which to build. It has all the enthusiasm and application of techniques I would hope to see from somebody at your stage of learning to compose.
Anyway, I broadly agree with Jaap's comments. Most of this music displays a good understanding of tonal harmony, counterpoint and texture, so you definitely know the building blocks of composition and have all the important tools to write with. You just need to keep experimenting with what works and what to avoid. I felt the third movement here was probably the best; it sounded rather like Mendelssohn but did more than just sound like him; you actually use counterpoint and contrasts in orchestration and have a nice theme. I do think bars 196-216 are extraneous: we have heard this fugato twice before and it gives the wrong signals for the stage of the piece we are at. It works as the entrance of the development, but not the coda. The second movement is too long and repetitive and your theme does not gain enough character. I think in general you need to put more drama into your melody and harmony to make your piece feel as if it is telling a story and not just being wallpaper music with nice tunes.
It is good to see plenty of counterpoint, and it being used in a way that really helps the music. I feel this is something that a lot of composers nowadays neglect, for whatever reason.
You would benefit from reading about and practising the orchestration of the wind and brass. (I am also surprised at the absence of timpani in this symphony). Often you write passages of repeated notes that continue for too long to be comfortable for the player, especially in the first movement. Apart from the player not having enough chance to breathe it becomes boring for the listener to hear the same thing for so long. Also you often write notes in poor registers. In the first movement, there is no way trumpets can play bars 97-102 at pp. It will come out more like mf at best because of how low it is. Bassoon in the third mvt bars 51-61 is very difficult with so many notes at such a speed. Sometimes you also write very difficult arpeggios for the strings which are too quick for them to be accurate, and they cannot change from pizz. to arco fast enough. I would not notate the strings in bars 188-195 as you do: use higher clefs or at most one 8va sign. But some of your orchestration is very imaginative and you create many exciting effects and colours. I like the use of solo strings in particular.
Now if you can keep practising and work on avoiding these problems you will be able to write some very good music indeed. Keep studying the 'great' composers and see what you can learn from them.
Anyway, I broadly agree with Jaap's comments. Most of this music displays a good understanding of tonal harmony, counterpoint and texture, so you definitely know the building blocks of composition and have all the important tools to write with. You just need to keep experimenting with what works and what to avoid. I felt the third movement here was probably the best; it sounded rather like Mendelssohn but did more than just sound like him; you actually use counterpoint and contrasts in orchestration and have a nice theme. I do think bars 196-216 are extraneous: we have heard this fugato twice before and it gives the wrong signals for the stage of the piece we are at. It works as the entrance of the development, but not the coda. The second movement is too long and repetitive and your theme does not gain enough character. I think in general you need to put more drama into your melody and harmony to make your piece feel as if it is telling a story and not just being wallpaper music with nice tunes.
It is good to see plenty of counterpoint, and it being used in a way that really helps the music. I feel this is something that a lot of composers nowadays neglect, for whatever reason.
You would benefit from reading about and practising the orchestration of the wind and brass. (I am also surprised at the absence of timpani in this symphony). Often you write passages of repeated notes that continue for too long to be comfortable for the player, especially in the first movement. Apart from the player not having enough chance to breathe it becomes boring for the listener to hear the same thing for so long. Also you often write notes in poor registers. In the first movement, there is no way trumpets can play bars 97-102 at pp. It will come out more like mf at best because of how low it is. Bassoon in the third mvt bars 51-61 is very difficult with so many notes at such a speed. Sometimes you also write very difficult arpeggios for the strings which are too quick for them to be accurate, and they cannot change from pizz. to arco fast enough. I would not notate the strings in bars 188-195 as you do: use higher clefs or at most one 8va sign. But some of your orchestration is very imaginative and you create many exciting effects and colours. I like the use of solo strings in particular.
Now if you can keep practising and work on avoiding these problems you will be able to write some very good music indeed. Keep studying the 'great' composers and see what you can learn from them.
The review above was by me, but somehow new YC didn't have me logged in. Just so you know who wrote it.
Hello! Thank you very much for all your comments! I appreciate it immensely! It was definitely not my intentions to show off by mentioning my age, I just thought it could be useful for commenting purposes to know the age and background of the composer =)
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
Hello! Thank you very much for all your comments! I appreciate it immensely! It was definitely not my intentions to show off by mentioning my age, I just thought it could be useful for commenting purposes to know the age and background of the composer =)
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
Hello! Thank you very much for all your comments! I appreciate it immensely! It was definitely not my intentions to show off by mentioning my age, I just thought it could be useful for commenting purposes to know the age and background of the composer =)
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
I am very serious about my composition, and I am only beginning to find my musical language. My other compositions are in many different styles, but I am not proud of any of those works as I am of the two on this site so far (Rhapsody Melancolique and the Symphony). Influence-wise, I am glad that my love for film music shines through in a way in my music, as well as the influence of Mendelssohn. I am also aware that mov. 1 is the weak part of the work, and may be subject to revision in the future.
I am always painfully aware of breathing concerns in my woodwinds, and I usually try to avoid problems. However, my music is written for advanced players, and because I have a basic knowledge of woodwinds (I was an oboist), I know that the part you mentioned is playable by good players. Thank you very much for your advice on the solo and tutti instructions though, I’ve never been quite sure about that. The solution to add the rests is probably the best for me, however, I could ask if it is appropriate to indicate “solo” and “tutti” instead of the rests?
And lastly, thanks for the comments about the score! I always try to present my music in the best light possible, and this starts with the actual presentation!
As for the second review, I will definitely look at all your comments, especially considering the orchestration. And I think I will add a timpani part to be played by the vibraphone player (because the vibraphone only plays in movement 2). One thing that I struggle with quite often is orchestrating accompaniment of melodies, especially in the woodwinds (which is why I often resort to repeated notes). I am working on this in particular in my newest works, and I am paying closer attention to all these comments. Thank you very much for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it! Heinrich Lategan
I've just heard the 1st mov. I think you have enough skills to significantly develop the themes a bit further, perhaps switching keys more often to create a higher degree of tension. In my opinion, the first movement makes or breaks a symphony, as it's when a composer musters his best and demands his audience's attention for the remainder of the work.
I like it! I listened to every note. Reminds me of a forest in the medival times where there is great rejoice!
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All of this has a sort of textbook quality. It is fine, but not really daring. I do not know what you want with music. I hear a mixture of Mendelssohn and film/game music. I guess that is what you meant by "typical modern classical fashion"
Anyway. I would try to expand your harmonic language, find your own. Esp. mov 1 is close to cheesy.
I enjoyed the C section of the 3rd movement. I think because the bass finally left their accompanimental role. Also very well that you did not pass the 16th notes to the trombone.
One issue with the orchestration of part 1. ms 27-33 for the woodwinds seemed to me too long. They need to breathe
One last minor issue. mv1 ms 59. You write "a2" at the place where the 2nd oboe, clarinet and bassoon pop in to play their note. You do not have to write "a2" there. in fact that would mean that each part would be played by 2 players. so you would need 4 of each instrument, which you don't have. This would be confusing. You state clearly when it is a solo, and when it isnt. It is clear that no multiphonics are meant, so you are in the save not to mention anything there.
An alternative would be to add rest (on the higher half, if you want player 2 to play, or on the lower halve if you want player 1 to play).
Finally I have to say: the score looks gorgeous. Well done