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Thread for discussion of the Brass material.
Orchestration: PART 2 (brass) discussion
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, Nov 27 2007 02:35 PM
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#2
Posted 24 December 2007 - 02:09 PM
Saiming
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Sushi - The Sea Serpent
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Exercise 1 part 4. I do not really understand what I am to elaborate. Am I to explain the feel I am trying to express?
Sorry if the question is stupid.
Sorry if the question is stupid.
And - in spite of the hype about genetic engineering - the best way to design your baby is still to send him to Eton. - Steve Jones, Prof. at UCL.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. - Randy Pausch
Saiming we should never meet in real life because the Universe will not be able to withstand the awesomeness - Max Castillo
#3
Guest_QcCowboy_*
Posted 24 December 2007 - 03:03 PM
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Yes.
If you are trying to write something "noble", then say so.
It doesn't have to be "emotional" but you should be trying to achieve SOME effect with your writing.
Now we need to be getting into details like this with our orchestrations. Are we rendering exactly what it is we want with our orchestrations. If you're looking for something light and fluffy, but instread it will come across as ponderous, then we need to discuss that.
If it's meant to be happy and bouncy but sounds like a funeral march, then again, discuss. I know a lot of this is subjective, but then, so is a LOT about music. This is why we discuss it. There are no absolute right and wrong answers. But there's lots of room for discussion.
If you are trying to write something "noble", then say so.
It doesn't have to be "emotional" but you should be trying to achieve SOME effect with your writing.
Now we need to be getting into details like this with our orchestrations. Are we rendering exactly what it is we want with our orchestrations. If you're looking for something light and fluffy, but instread it will come across as ponderous, then we need to discuss that.
If it's meant to be happy and bouncy but sounds like a funeral march, then again, discuss. I know a lot of this is subjective, but then, so is a LOT about music. This is why we discuss it. There are no absolute right and wrong answers. But there's lots of room for discussion.
#4
Posted 24 December 2007 - 03:11 PM
Saiming
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Ok I understand.
And - in spite of the hype about genetic engineering - the best way to design your baby is still to send him to Eton. - Steve Jones, Prof. at UCL.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. - Randy Pausch
Saiming we should never meet in real life because the Universe will not be able to withstand the awesomeness - Max Castillo
#5
Posted 24 December 2007 - 04:14 PM
Saiming
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There.
Part 4 is a few more measures, I did not want to abruptly cut of the phrase. AND I know it sounds too much like some Star Wars piece, but I just liked the parallel chord from C major
Anyway, hope it is not too much of a disaster
[Edit] Oh yeah! Almost forgot to mention my intent on Part 4. I wanted to get something slightly prideful but not too pompous. It should still symbolize some major event,
Part 4 is a few more measures, I did not want to abruptly cut of the phrase. AND I know it sounds too much like some Star Wars piece, but I just liked the parallel chord from C major
Anyway, hope it is not too much of a disaster
[Edit] Oh yeah! Almost forgot to mention my intent on Part 4. I wanted to get something slightly prideful but not too pompous. It should still symbolize some major event,
Attached Files
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Lesson2Exercise1.1.mus 40.6K
133 downloads
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Lesson2Exercise1.2.mus 40.84K
110 downloads
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Lesson2Exercise1.3.mus 40.88K
103 downloads
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Lesson2Exercise1.4.mus 43.21K
110 downloads
And - in spite of the hype about genetic engineering - the best way to design your baby is still to send him to Eton. - Steve Jones, Prof. at UCL.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. - Randy Pausch
Saiming we should never meet in real life because the Universe will not be able to withstand the awesomeness - Max Castillo
#6
Guest_QcCowboy_*
Posted 24 December 2007 - 04:23 PM
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Matt, it's all pretty good, though your 1st trombone part is a bit long in the high register.
Same for your 1st trumpet part in the 1st exercise.
for the 4th exercise I might have suggested using a trumpet to replace that, or re-arranging the horns to give the horn the upper part.
it works the way you did it also, however.
all in all, good.
Just be careful about relying too much on the highest register of any instrument.
One thing that's difficult is learning to deal with a mass of instruments in the same register. This is where you start to work out lines that double and pass through others.
There are ways of setting up lines so that basically everyone is playing the same notes, but the DIRECTION of lines is not necessarily the same for everyone.
When I get back, I'll try to put together an example.
Same for your 1st trumpet part in the 1st exercise.
for the 4th exercise I might have suggested using a trumpet to replace that, or re-arranging the horns to give the horn the upper part.
it works the way you did it also, however.
all in all, good.
Just be careful about relying too much on the highest register of any instrument.
One thing that's difficult is learning to deal with a mass of instruments in the same register. This is where you start to work out lines that double and pass through others.
There are ways of setting up lines so that basically everyone is playing the same notes, but the DIRECTION of lines is not necessarily the same for everyone.
When I get back, I'll try to put together an example.
#7
Posted 24 December 2007 - 04:29 PM
Saiming
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I have never really grasped how long time a person can 'survive' without air, I have looked and read a bit but never really grasped the info.
About the 4th exercise, I considered using trumpets as well to emphasis the motive but I thought that having two horns play in unison should be sufficient. (I also got this fetish for Horns
)
Thank you
About the 4th exercise, I considered using trumpets as well to emphasis the motive but I thought that having two horns play in unison should be sufficient. (I also got this fetish for Horns
)Yes! I really have problems with that. I found the Part 4 too much in unison, but I could not figure out a way to double it and still have a good emphasis on the motive instead of it blending in totally with the harmony.There are ways of setting up lines so that basically everyone is playing the same notes, but the DIRECTION of lines is not necessarily the same for everyone.
Thank you
And - in spite of the hype about genetic engineering - the best way to design your baby is still to send him to Eton. - Steve Jones, Prof. at UCL.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. - Randy Pausch
Saiming we should never meet in real life because the Universe will not be able to withstand the awesomeness - Max Castillo
#8
Posted 28 December 2007 - 11:34 PM
James H.
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Okay, I made a big booboo, but I might get by, depends on what you're looking for here.
I read the directions for Exercise 1 the other day and I just did the exercise now without rereading the directions and forgot it was only supposed to be 1-2 measures.... my progression is nine measures.
I wrote the progression twice in the .mus... the first time I wrote each part A, B, and C all in the same measures, so I have the horns doing the progression, and below them are the trumpets, and below them are the trombones and tuba, each of the sections being self-contained and independent. I originally wrote the progression for 3 trombones and forgot the tuba, so I mixed it up a little and threw in some extra harmonies. The second time, after the final bar line, is where I added and subtracted sections and switched some harmony parts around. This is part D, I believe.
If you want me to do this again with something simpler and shorter, I will, I just completely forgot that it was supposed to be a little simpler.
I read the directions for Exercise 1 the other day and I just did the exercise now without rereading the directions and forgot it was only supposed to be 1-2 measures.... my progression is nine measures.
I wrote the progression twice in the .mus... the first time I wrote each part A, B, and C all in the same measures, so I have the horns doing the progression, and below them are the trumpets, and below them are the trombones and tuba, each of the sections being self-contained and independent. I originally wrote the progression for 3 trombones and forgot the tuba, so I mixed it up a little and threw in some extra harmonies. The second time, after the final bar line, is where I added and subtracted sections and switched some harmony parts around. This is part D, I believe.
If you want me to do this again with something simpler and shorter, I will, I just completely forgot that it was supposed to be a little simpler.
Attached Files
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Exercise B1old - J4.MUS 64.95K
107 downloads
Multi-instrumentalist. Semi-composer. Mostly-harmless.
Hi. I used to be a pretty serious YC member. Now I'm fourth year in university and have a demanding life. Find me on Facebook if you want to bother me about anything. =] <siggy updated 7/12/12>
Hi. I used to be a pretty serious YC member. Now I'm fourth year in university and have a demanding life. Find me on Facebook if you want to bother me about anything. =] <siggy updated 7/12/12>
#9
Guest_QcCowboy_*
Posted 28 December 2007 - 11:56 PM
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Enigmus (J = John? James?...), that was fine.
It was quite good.
I notice a lot of exact doublings of parts... if you want to go over it, I'd suggest looking at possibilities of NOT doing such long doublings... switch it up a bit. The doublings were nice, the textures worked REALLY well, but in teh long run, it would feel a bit static. If you have for example a horn line doubling a trombone, it could maybe double for only two notes, then change with ANOTHER part to double... you basically create inner lines, independant voices, without actually creating any NEW lines.
let's just look at the first few measures.
measure 2
Horn 3 doubles trumpet 2 at the octave,
however, imagine if it started F (whole note), then at measure 3 an A (half note, exactly as it does now), but then continued rising - Bb (half note), then C natural in measure 4... this would create a nice rising line in at least one voice.
measure 4
trumpet 3 could leap up an octave on that C, as two half notes, letting it slip away from the unison horn and crossing over trumpet 2.
this allows you to place, at measure 5, the D in the 3rd trumpet one octave up, liberating the texture around middle C a bit.
This requires a bit of juggling of the parts, but it's something you'll get the knack of with time.
It was quite good.
I notice a lot of exact doublings of parts... if you want to go over it, I'd suggest looking at possibilities of NOT doing such long doublings... switch it up a bit. The doublings were nice, the textures worked REALLY well, but in teh long run, it would feel a bit static. If you have for example a horn line doubling a trombone, it could maybe double for only two notes, then change with ANOTHER part to double... you basically create inner lines, independant voices, without actually creating any NEW lines.
let's just look at the first few measures.
measure 2
Horn 3 doubles trumpet 2 at the octave,
however, imagine if it started F (whole note), then at measure 3 an A (half note, exactly as it does now), but then continued rising - Bb (half note), then C natural in measure 4... this would create a nice rising line in at least one voice.
measure 4
trumpet 3 could leap up an octave on that C, as two half notes, letting it slip away from the unison horn and crossing over trumpet 2.
this allows you to place, at measure 5, the D in the 3rd trumpet one octave up, liberating the texture around middle C a bit.
This requires a bit of juggling of the parts, but it's something you'll get the knack of with time.
#10
Posted 29 December 2007 - 08:08 PM
James H.
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- Favorite Composers:... ... Only some of them.
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- Notation Software/Sequencers:... Finale.
- Instruments Played:... ... All the instruments.
Here's Exercise 2... the ostinato. It's very thick... a lot of dissonant harmonies going on here. The horns keep steady, playing the same figure, the lower brass kinda have a bass line of sorts, and the trumpets are just the garnish on top. The tenor bones hint at a melodic phrase... could possibly fit in with a more static string part that this all might fit underneath.
I feel like I could have done more to create the effect of having the pattern move between the instruments, I didn't really do that very much.
I feel like I could have done more to create the effect of having the pattern move between the instruments, I didn't really do that very much.
Attached Files
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Exercise B2 - J4.MUS 62.38K
108 downloads
Multi-instrumentalist. Semi-composer. Mostly-harmless.
Hi. I used to be a pretty serious YC member. Now I'm fourth year in university and have a demanding life. Find me on Facebook if you want to bother me about anything. =] <siggy updated 7/12/12>
Hi. I used to be a pretty serious YC member. Now I'm fourth year in university and have a demanding life. Find me on Facebook if you want to bother me about anything. =] <siggy updated 7/12/12>
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