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caters last won the day on October 3

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About caters

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    Intermediate Composer

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    Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Chopin
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    Classical, Romantic
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  1. I tend to equally often start with different components of the piece. Sometimes the melody comes first and I have to decide on the bass line afterwards(as is the case with my Fantasia in F). Sometimes the bass line comes first, as in a few of my piano sonatas. And sometimes I don't start with either of these, but instead start with a motive or a specific rhythm(the introductory canon of my first symphony is a good example of where I went rhythmic motive first in my composition and the melody and bass just kind of formed from that rhythm). And sometimes, I just go with the flow and don't worry too much about what happens next(my Piano Sonata no. 4 that I finished composing as a birthday piece for Mozart in January of this year is a good example of this).
  2. If you don't know already, I am writing a fantasia in the key of F major. I already posted about it here: Well, I have made some progress with the Fantasia. I have another section in place. Now, I might change some of those triplet arpeggios into sixteenth note arpeggios or eighth note arpeggios, but I have an arpeggiated bass line. I'm wanting to gradually harmonize the melody and make it richer to make it sound like the river is getting wider. But, in order to do that, I need to know where the modulation back to F major occurs(because, like I said in the previous post, I am reserving dissonance for those moments where I go into a minor key). I know I am in C major for a while before I modulate back to F major(Settling the drama of the C minor with a Picardy Third followed by a passage in C major). But, I have no idea where I actually modulate back to F major. That is a bit of a problem. Because what if I by accident put a Bb over a B natural or vice versa(those G chords do change in sonority from major to minor)? That is going to lead to a major seventh interval in there and an urge to resolve. As an example of what I mean by the major seventh having an urge to resolve, whenever I hear a CM7 chord, my brain is always like "This chord so wants to go to C major, it is so close, just raise that B and it will feel right" or in other words, it hears a dominant function from a "tonic" chord. Anyway, back to my question relating to modulation. There are a few places where I can hear a tendency towards F major, with the first one being more subtle than the others. Here they are: But then again, between bars 38 and 51, C major feels pretty settled, like it is the tonic, and it is only after bar 51 that I am sure it is acting as a dominant chord in the key of F major. However, I'm pretty sure that bar 51 is not the point of modulation back to F. I'm pretty sure that the modulation happens before that cadence in F and is only confirmed by the cadence. But then, if the modulation happens before bar 51, why would C major feel so settled before bar 51? You see what I mean? On the one hand, there are things that push the music towards the key of F major, like the Bb major chord at bar 47. If I were to still describe C major as being the tonic at bar 47, the Bb major chord would be a secondary subdominant chord. But on the other hand, until that cadence in F, C major feels as settled as can be, like it is the tonic chord. When I am wanting to make the melody richer, this could potentially become disastrous, this uncertainty of where the modulation happens because C major feels settled until the cadence in F. Here is what I have now of the Fantasia in F(C major section that modulates back to F starts at 1:26 in the audio and bar 38 in the PDF)
  3. It sounds interesting. It is like you have combined the grace of Mozart, the power of Beethoven, the difficulty of Chopin, and your own style into a single movement.
  4. I am working on it for the third time now, and I have a pretty good idea of where I want to have the brass instruments enter and what I want to do for each of the themes of the first movement. If you haven't already guessed yet, I am arranging the Pathetique Sonata once again. I have always heard an orchestral sonority to the original piano sonata, prompting me to arrange it for an orchestra. After a few Mozart arrangements(including arranging Eine Kleine Nachtmusik for orchestra) and arranging Beethoven's Fifth Symphony for a chamber ensemble(which wasn't as hard as I expected it to be), I feel much more confident that I can go from piano score to orchestra than I did 2 years back. Here is the orchestra that I plan to arrange the Pathetique Sonata for: Piccolo(If the notes get too high for the flute, the piccolo will play those notes) Flutes Oboes English horn?(all the other woodwinds come in family pairs, so should I do the same for the oboe?) Bb Clarinets Bass Clarinet(I added this in the case that the orchestra only has 3 bassoons, but I still need the 4 note bass chords) Bassoons Contrabassoon Horns in F(They will get the whole note bass line in the second theme of the exposition, where the left hand goes into the treble clef) C trumpets(standard orchestral trumpet) Alto, Tenor, and Bass trombones?(I have been told to just do 2 tenors and a bass if I am writing for 3 trombones, but would Beethoven approve that or would he prefer I use Alto, Tenor, and Bass trombones?) Tuba Tympani First Violins Second Violins Violas(sometimes supporting the melody in the violins, sometimes acting as a high bass instrument) Cellos(Both the cellos and the bassoons would sometimes be divisi) Double Basses(notating an octave above what Beethoven wrote to make sure it isn't out of range and still get that deep bass) What do you think of my instrumentation here?
  5. Sorry, I meant to put in the mp3 and pdf of what I have so far when I posted it. Well, I have it there now. And yes, I am writing my fantasia for piano.
  6. I am writing a fantasia where I am representing the flow of a river from a little stream out to sea(I even nicknamed the piece River Fantasia), and because it is a fantasia, I'm not really focusing on the themes, motives, etc. like I would for a sonata. I'm just improvising the melody and bass as I go along. But I do have an arc for my fantasia which goes like this: As you can see, the contrary motion is part of how the bass line sinks from the treble clef into the bass clef, and scales are used more towards the beginning of the piece. I have reached my first Rapids moment of the piece. And as you can see, in the 6 measures before, I prepare the major to minor motion with downward moving chromaticism. And since the Rapids moment is going to have a lot of octaves, loud dynamics, and faster notes in general, I decided to do an accellerando in the 3 measures before the Rapids moment. What do you think of what I have written so far? And also, what do you think of the F major to C minor motion? I know I have prepared for it well, but should I move to C minor? Or, if I have Db in my minor key preparation anyway, should I go to F minor? Or should I try both and see which version I prefer, possibly asking for your input if I'm stuck(I will probably write the C minor version and then transpose it to F minor, saving the F minor as a separate file)? The parallel minor is more common to show up than the minor dominant, but at the same time, if I am aiming for the turbulent sound of rapids, then moving to the minor dominant might accentuate that turbulence.
  7. I wrote a short piece for solo piano using the C Half-Whole Octatonic scale. I used the same key signature that I would use for C minor and as you can probably tell from the title, I emphasize the C minor tonality while also making it very obvious that it isn't your normal C minor by outlining diminished sevenths and using them in place of your regular dominant in the cadences. For the ending, I decided to go dramatic and have the C Half-Whole Octatonic go down 4 octaves during a creschendo and then have Cdim7 go straight to C minor with no chord in between. I found 2 cadences so far that I could make using the Half-Whole Octatonic scale, an Authentic Cadence and a Deceptive Cadence. And guess what? Each one of those is the hand inversion of the other. In the Authentic Cadence, the melody goes Db, Bb, C, and the bass provides the chords. In the Deceptive Cadence, it is flipped, the right hand provides the chords and the left hand does the melodic motion. Same chords, same inversions, but much weaker than the Authentic Cadence. What do you think of my short piece in C Half-Whole Octatonic?
  8. I never meant to imply that you said that my syncopated cadence is wrong. I was just commenting on your reply about the cadence sounding odd. Are you suggesting that I have more rests earlier on in the left hand instead of just those at measures 16, 17, and 35, like maybe at measure 10? I can easily find places within the bass line for the left hand to have a rest instead of a note, if that is what you are suggesting. And even if that isn't what you are suggesting, I still will probably add rests to the left hand in the Trio section to help provide contrast(and also to keep it from being tiring on the pianist) and possibly in a revision of the Scherzo section. I mean, once I get the dynamic arc down, the almost constant bass arpeggiation might not fit with the piece anymore. It might be that forte moments would tend towards a sparser, more chordal bass and piano moments would tend towards a more active arpeggiated bass. Or in contrast, it might be that forte moments would tend towards a more active bass and piano moments would tend towards a sparser bass. Or it might differ from section to section as to which dynamics are more sparse and which ones are more active.
  9. Well, I was aiming for some syncopation, thus the rests and the eighth note offset between the melody and the bass in measures 17-18. Syncopation, I know is a good way to add humor to music, but more importantly, when the melody came to me, it came to me with that syncopated cadence. I tried to make it less awkward by having the melody continue to play for a bit when the bass stops and having the bass continue for a bit when the melody stops, making the length of a stop in both hands an eighth rest, even if the length of the stop in 1 hand is longer than an eighth rest. And you're right, I do see parallel octaves with a retardation in the right hand. I can easily change it so that the left hand in measure 17 goes up to G instead of down to C#. Still a leap of a third and still consonant with the harmony, but the parallel octaves are avoided in place of a fourth moving to an octave
  10. I have completed the Scherzo section of my Scherzo. Okay, let me explain. I am writing in Scherzo and Trio form. I have completed the Scherzo part of that form. At first, I didn't have a pickup measure, but I decided that it was needed for my Scherzo to feel right. The Scherzo section of it further divides into 2 parts In the first part of it, the overall harmonic motion is from D to G and back. The Scherzo section of the piece has a motive that very frequently shows up in the melody. I end the first part of the Scherzo section with a syncopated cadence(both in the sense that it is on a weak beat and in the sense that the bass and melody are offset by an eighth note). In the second part of it, I use the circle of fifths to modulate from D major to D minor. I then have the Scherzo phrase appear once again in D minor. Then, I have a first and second ending where the first ending has a half cadence that leads back to the modulation and the second ending has an authentic cadence in D minor that leads into the Trio section, which is also in D minor. In the circle of fifths modulation, there is a Neopolitan chord that seemlessly goes from the circle of fifths modulation to the dominant of the key. The authentic cadence in the second ending has an augmented sixth chord that I added to confirm the modulation to D minor. I am working on the Trio right now. This is how I planned out my Scherzo: Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo Da Capo - Coda What do you think of my Scherzo section? Audio ends at 1:29
  11. I think Nocturne fits the piece pretty well, especially as you get to Variation 1, which sounds very nocturnal. Those beginning arpeggios and the sinking bass though remind me of another piece I have heard, which also goes from slow to fast and vice versa like your piece does and just happens to be in the same key. That being Mozart's Fantasia in D minor, perhaps the closest I have heard Mozart get to Beethoven stylistically in piano solo outside of piano sonatas. Your tempo changes aren't nearly as drastic as the ones in Mozart's Fantasia in D minor, but they still remind me of that piece.
  12. It sounds to me like a slow 3/4 time signature. 9/8 is out of the question because nowhere do I hear what sounds like triplets or even something close to it. 6/8 is sometimes, especially outside of Classical Music, treated like it has 3 beats, but the piece just sounds too slow for 6/8 to be a likely answer. Usually, even when 6/8 has 3 beats instead of 2, it is at at least a moderate tempo. This is slower than that. So, yeah, I think it is a slow 3/4, with 1 chord change per measure.
  13. It sounds dissonant, but at least you don't leave the dissonance hanging. The opening of this reminds me of a piece by Mozart. That being: His Dissonance Quartet, so called because the introduction uses a lot of dissonant harmonies before it goes into the consonant Allegro which is definitely in C major.
  14. It sounds nice and all, but I'm not sure that I would describe it as being in the form of a rondo. ABACA, I mean yes, some rondos including the very famous Fur Elise are in that form, but most are more complicated. Also, the tempo just does not suggest to me a rondo form. Usually, rondos are at a moderately fast tempo at least(so like Allegretto or Allegro Moderato). Again, Fur Elise is a moderately fast rondo, as is probably the most well known Rondo to all pianists: And the supposed C section sounds so similar to the B section in motives and everything, that I'm not sure the key contrast is enough to justify it being a C section instead of a second B section. If we simplify things so that the C section is a second B section, we get this: ABABA That suggests a totally different form from the rondo. That being what I call a Double Minuet and Trio. Minuet and Trio because of the A and B sections, and Double because the B section shows up twice. One symphonic movement by Beethoven follows this form. That being the third movement of Beethoven's fourth symphony: But, there is something unusual about what you have composed, more so than the Double Minuet and Trio form, that being the time signature. Most bagatelles and minuets are in 3/4 time. But your time signature is 4/4. Most of what you wrote seems like it would fit perfectly into 3/4, more so than it fits into 4/4. And with 3/4, you wouldn't need the anacrusis(pickup measure) to fit the notes in nicely.
  15. This here is my original Turkish March. I didn't have much to go on except 2 pieces by 2 very famous composers to know what a Turkish March is supposed to sound like. Those being Mozart's Rondo alla Turka and Beethoven's Turkish March from Ruins of Athens. I pretty heavily borrowed from Mozart for this one. I didn't even know the tempo range until I listened to Mozart's and Beethoven's Turkish March pieces(which are the only ones I could find on Youtube by searching "Turkish March") I found that the tempo for both hovered around 110 BPM. Here is the form that it ended up being in: ABACABADCAECDC Coda A - Starting theme in C major B - Contrasting theme in F major C - Scalar theme in C major D - Contrasting theme in A minor E - Contrasting theme in C minor With the A minor theme, I use harmonic minor throughout. With the C minor theme, I only use harmonic minor as a pivot back to C major. This is because, at the time that I composed this piece(which is almost a year ago now), I thought harmonic minor just made C minor too much like C major for my ears to accept using it outside of pivots. In contrast, C dorian, another minor scale with a sharpened note, felt much more minor to me than harmonic minor. Now, I don't have that strong "Harmonic minor is too much like major" inclination for any key, not even C minor(which is the key for which that inclination lasted the longest). Melodic minor though, I still avoid, even in minor - major pivots, and for the same reason, sounding too much like major to be acceptable. In the coda, I use GM7 as my dominant instead of G7. It sounds, to me at least, more urgent to resolve than the dominant seventh, because you have 2 leading tones, the leading tone of the key and the leading tone of the dominant of the key. What do you think of my Turkish March?
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