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Mystic Water

How do you compose?

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Just a side note, that really isn't good orchestration. The a 2 C and low C in the Bass Trombone will drown out the horn's E's. Also, why would you use open chords in the trumpets? That won't sound good and you'll have notes sticking out all over the place. Blend is key in accompaniment right?

I must agree I think composing isn't so easy as Norby said until you want to reach a level and you can't use the same technique in all your pieces every single one is different.

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ermm..it was only an example....I know that you will nitpicking and wont get the idea lol :)

The point was that you usually uses in C major the chords' three note as accompaniment (C, E,G)...

Anyway open chords can sound good for trumpets I think...of course not in every place

But of course open chords is better used for Trombones etc...

And composition is DO easy if you have ideas and know the rules of orchestration properly, just takes a lot of time to make the piece sound perfectly in every way...

"The a 2 C and low C in the Bass Trombone will drown out the horn's E'"

Its not if the Bass Trombone only play a 8th in the beginning, I didnt think of a whole note dude

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I disagree. I think people who say composition is "easy" don't care enough about it. It doesn't make them untalented. Even the greatest composers have racked their brains at one point or another, but giving it 100% 100% of the time is improbable.

True. I meant something more along those lines honestly but those who don't care too much about composition also are unlikely to be that good. I don't see too many people just effortlessly shitting out a masterpieces. At least, not without years of practice and honing technique first. Plus I was more extreme with my words just because I happen to seriously dislike the attitude of a few posters on this thread (shouldn't be hard to figure out who). But I've said enough.

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I'm pretty sure anyone who says composition is "easy" isn't very good at it. Just sayin'.

Making art is very easy. Stop complicating things. All it takes is one 3 year old with a whistle.

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I disagree. I think people who say composition is "easy" don't care enough about it. It doesn't make them untalented. Even the greatest composers have racked their brains at one point or another, but giving it 100% 100% of the time is improbable.

The talent in composition must be fact but only with talent you can't do many things if we are talking about masterpieces and not for another good song.

Making art is very easy. Stop complicating things. All it takes is one 3 year old with a whistle.

Honestly I don't think that one 3 year old with a whistle is art.

I love kids you can say very beautiful or something else but not art.

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Hey guys, how about we give the elitist composers club talk a rest? Composition can be as easy as cake for someone and the most challenging puzzle in the world to someone else. And who said every piece has to be a masterpiece? I don't think any composer in the world intends every work of theirs to be the "magnum opus".

Whatever music someone comes up with in their free time is composing. And there's no such thing as "caring enough" about composition. I mean, it's a friggin art form! That means there are no regulations like "you have to spend hours a day slaving over your manuscript and piano, and care about your work more than your wife, or you're not a real composer."

Yikes. The way people think of making music here can be pretty pretentious sometimes.

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I don't think any composer in the world intends every work of theirs to be the "magnum opus".

Well, I do sort of approach most pieces I'm working on with the idea "I'll now write the best thing I've ever written!". Of course I know that this is usually far from reality, but it's still the general mindset behind it and I know many others who approach composition similarly. I don't think it has to be the case, but there definitely are composers for whom every new work is a "major work", possibly even "the major work".

Anyways: You are right of course, in principle. There's nothing to say spending little time or even effort on a piece is necessarily worthless and can't still produce great music.

I think the point is that in general the question of "how easy" composing is for you has next to nothing to do with how "good" you are at it, how much you know, how much talent you have or how great the music is you write, but is simply a question of your personal standards and demands. And often, while you grow more experienced as a composer, your standards will get higher and you might not be happy about just settling with "what comes easy for you". Personally, I often enjoy music more where I feel the composer has challenged her- or himself with a certain musical "problem" (even if she or he fails to some degree), maybe because that lets me feel being part of a "musical adventure" as a listener too - to music that was just effortlessly written down. But that isn't absolute at all. I still enjoy -lots- of music of the latter sort and still dislike some music of the former sort (especially when I get the feeling the musical "problem" the composer was dealing with is silly in the first place :P).

So all in all, none of this is meant as a qualitative judgement, but rather to explain why quite a few composers feel a bit put off by others mentioning how "easy" composition is. If a cook spends years refining some recipes and someone comes along mentioning how easy it is to cook (while thinking of fried eggs), then you'll probably have to expect some "pretentious" remarks. And that doesn't mean fried eggs can't be an utterly fantastic thing. They might even taste better to you than this cook's refined recipe. But that's a different question.

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Yikes, you're right :(. We should be less critical, like you.

Well, I'm not setting myself as the prime example of neutrality in the discussion of musical philosophy or anything, but you should be less critical, I think.

So all in all, none of this is meant as a qualitative judgement, but rather to explain why quite a few composers feel a bit put off by others mentioning how "easy" composition is. If a cook spends years refining some recipes and someone comes along mentioning how easy it is to cook (while thinking of fried eggs), then you'll probably have to expect some "pretentious" remarks. And that doesn't mean fried eggs can't be an utterly fantastic thing. They might even taste better to you than this cook's refined recipe. But that's a different question.

You're right. But, with subjective things like cooking, there is no best recipe. There might be most healthy, or most refined, but not just plain best. So if I thought my fried eggs were the best thing on the planet and I did my doctoral thesis in culinary school on fried eggs, and then Chuck Shmuck throws a party and everyone loves his fried eggs, where does that leave me?

Of course people like some music better than ours. Of course some people will like your music better than mine, or mine better than yours. None of these are wrong answers and there is no incorrect process of musicmaking. That's what I'm driving at.

BUT if Chuck Shmuck specifically says writing a modern art symphony and getting it played by the New York Phil is easy, then you can throw some bricks.

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So if I thought my fried eggs were the best thing on the planet and I did my doctoral thesis in culinary school on fried eggs, and then Chuck Shmuck throws a party and everyone loves his fried eggs, where does that leave me?

Well, either you do approach frying eggs as something simple, or you take into account all the intricacies you have researched to make the most awesome fried eggs mankind has ever seen. In the first case, despite your thesis, your cooking standards are at the same level as of anyone else frying eggs, in the second case you are approaching the matter with very high standards and you probably wouldn't call it "easy". That's all I'm saying. That there's no "best recipe" goes without saying, but there's still the difference between the intention of making "awesome fried eggs" or "just some fried eggs". Again, making "just some fried eggs" is perfectly valid (that's the course of action I would choose when faced with the challenge of having to fry eggs). But if you discuss what it means to cook with others (possibly professional cooks) then it's possibly a bit misplaced to take this as a standard and say "cooking is easy".

P.S. I've actually read some rather detailed explanations on the optimal way of frying eggs and the related chemical backgrounds. Which parts of the egg should be salted how much, etc. It's rather interesting!

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I disagree. I think people who say composition is "easy" don't care enough about it. It doesn't make them untalented. Even the greatest composers have racked their brains at one point or another, but giving it 100% 100% of the time is improbable.

I mostly agree with this, except for that "people who say composition is easy don't care enough about it". That's a bit critical of people who are simply hobbyists and don't bother racking their brains over huge works, which was what I was referring to.

And also, you (jokingly) said "we should all be less critical like you", so in my response, my "you" was plural.

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Ah, I see. I was referring mostly to people who are seriously devoted to composition (not that you need to be). I was excluding hobbyists, but this by no means excludes their validity, so pardon me.

Okay, no problem. I was mostly referring to the people who don't necessarily want to give their lives to it. If we're excluding unprofessional composers, then it would be kind of an offbeat statement to say composition is easy. Then again, I can't imagine any professional/devoted composer saying that.

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I sit at the piano, find a melody, then find a working harmony and go from there. Or just playing chords in strange orders until I find a progression I like.

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