Are composers generally socially reserved or shy?

Please speak from your own experience, both with yourself and with other composers. This is the conclusion I have come to from my experience, mostly with myself. And I think that composition functions as a personal tool or mode of self-socialization. I think those who are already socially confident and can easily express themselves socially without any undue inhibitions, do not really need the tool of composition through which to do so, or to use as an aid or medium in doing so.

An example serving to support this theory of mine is the fact that of the three Bs, Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms, only Beethoven wrote an opera, and it was only one opera, and one which gave him a lot of problems. This is if we can consider opera as the most social form of composition, which I think everyone agrees it is.

Maybe some hide their shyness or social reserve behind a kind of social roughness as I think was the case with Beethoven and maybe Brahms. In any case I think a certain degree of introversion is a usual trait and may even be necessary for most composers. What do you think?

An example serving to support this theory of mine is the fact that of the three Bs, Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms, only Beethoven wrote an opera, and it was only one opera, and one which gave him a lot of problems.

I think I read somewhere that Bach actually wanted to write an opera, just never had a real opportunity for it, being mostly paid for church music. Don't hold me on that though. But it's still a fact that many choices concerning what kind of piece for what instruments you write are strongly influenced by exterior circumstances. This is especially true for such large projects as operas, where you have to work for a long time, and which cost a lot of money.

I'm not sure whether operas are more "social" than other music though. Of course, it involves a lot of people, if that's what you mean, and it has a story that conveys something more distinct than just music to the listener, but that doesn't really make writing an opera a social act.

Maybe at least some introversion is necessary to be a composer or music writer. I suppose as introverts we do miss out on some good parts of life... after all - extroversion is the natural state of being. Introversion is kind of like a flaw with side-benefits...

You can't just make a generalised statement like that out of one, or even a few, personal experiences and examples.

For one, I am very social and have no problems with other people. So there you go, your argument's back to where it began. And I don't see composition as a "tool" to "express" some things that I wouldn't express by socialising. I just view composition as a very fun activity that stimulates the brain and ear, is challenging, and I enjoy doing.

First of all, there doesn't seem to be a particular correlation between creative hobbies (such as composition, performance, painting, problem solving or whatever) and the "social quotient" if you want it this way. For one thing, if you think of all the American abstract expressionists of the 60+'s, they were all very social (including composers such as Cage and Feldman). But on the other hand, what about actors? Acting is one of the very demanding arts, and very creative although it might not seem like it at a first glance. And I personally can't imagine many actors being shy or socially problematic.

I don't see some reasoning behind the correlation between composers and people who are not very active/able socially.

I'm extremely introverted. I have very few friends, always have done, and I suspect I always will. I don't, however, think that this is anything to do with my interest in music - I compose for the same reasons I enjoy mathematics - it's fun, there are elements of problem solving, it's a mainly solitary activity, and I get the same sense of achievement when I write something I'm proud of as when I solve a difficult problem.

One argument against your theory is that a lot of the most famous composers have also been virtuoso performers - and I doubt there will be many introverted performers.

Yah, Liszt was extremely extroverted (and rather successful with the ladyfolk). Don't know that much about the personality of other composers. I know that Shostakovich was very nerdy and introverted and kind of shy around people.

In general, I just think composers are smart folk, and smart folk are more likely to be nerdy/shy/strange.

Everyone knows Beethoven and Brahms were the only composers ever to exist

I know I certainly epitomize the "introverted artist" stereotype (although I can be extroverted in my own strange way), but it's not fair to cast it upon everyone who composes. I know one of the other great musicians/composers at my school is a pretty social, extroverted guy.

When will people learn that these little stereotypes are lame. I think the only real common trait among composers is a love for music and a desire to create. As for how they interact with people, if they are gay, if they like dogs, etc you are not going to find a common thread.

Sure, you may find some traits that are more common among composers, simply because how random within nonrandom groups work.

Cheerleaders are airheads, mathematicians go crazy, engineers are stiffs, scientist are evil, businessman are corrupt, politicians spew lies, and all good composers are gay. Lame stereotypes. Move beyond them and just accept that people are people and within any social group you will not be able to say most or all act a certain way. (At least in regards to friendliness. )

I compose for the same reasons I enjoy mathematics - it's fun, there are elements of problem solving, it's a mainly solitary activity, and I get the same sense of achievement when I write something I'm proud of as when I solve a difficult problem.

Hey! I've told you that! :P

I'm shy around girls. :(

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If you want to get your stuff performed, if you want to have people LISTEN TO YOUR SONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you have to have a... certain attitude.

Think rock & roll star. It don't mean you have to be a jerk or a pretentious brat. It means you have to be so passionate about music that you don't even care there's people, SO LONG AS THEY LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC!"$!$)I$W

I'm shy around girls. :(

...

If you want to get your stuff performed, if you want to have people LISTEN TO YOUR SONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you have to have a... certain attitude.

Think rock & roll star. It don't mean you have to be a jerk or a pretentious brat. It means you have to be so passionate about music that you don't even care there's people, SO LONG AS THEY LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC!"$!$)I$W

? I suppose the ladies would appreciate my nudeness on stage, if I appreciated theirs. It's common courtesy.

Actually the question is a valid one. Depending on how one interprets 'generally', the answer is of sociological interest. In drug tests (real vs. placebo) if the real one only performs better by 55:45, it's still a positive outcome. Does this mean the drug is 'generally' efficacious?

But back to the question. If one claims 'orchestral conductors are generally men', the fact that there are women conductors does not invalidate the statement.

Personally though, I don't think extro/introvertness has a correlation with being a composer. I could be wrong!

What about a poll?

You are comparing apple and oranges. Does being a composer effect your personality, or does being a certain personality predispose you to be a composer. Perhaps the later, but hardly the former. Which seems to be what the original post seems to indicate.

There can be no parallel drawn between seeing if a pill can effect someone and seeing if composers are mostly gay. Even if most composers are gay, it doesn't matter, no real correlation can be made.

I'm pretty outgoing. So there, the statement's false.

How one handles himself/herself socially is applied more to somebody as an individual than somebody as a profession. I'm generally pretty soft-spoken, I'm shy around new people, but I try to make an effort to really know somebody. Is that evident in my music? I don't know.

I've wondered about this myself. By no means do I think all composers are shy or introverted but I have noticed that a lot seem to be. I, myself, am rather soft-spoken and it takes awhile for me to warm up to people. Even still, it's hard to get close to me and I don't have many friends because of it. Whether or not this has anything to do with writing music, I have no idea. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't write as music if I had more friends to occupy my time (not that I wish for more friends). I think maybe I internalize a lot of thoughts and feelings that manifest themselves in my music. If I were a more outgoing person, maybe I would externalize a lot of more my emotions and therefore not have it come out in my music. This is all just theoretical though. There is no way to prove any of this. I'd say the majority of composers are introverted but by no means are *all* that way. I know plenty of outgoing people who enjoy writing music.

I don't agree with people who say they enjoy music because it's just fun, no matter how true that is for them that it's just plain fun. Music is my life, my only friend, my love.

Not the ones I know. None.

I'm not a loud person, but I am not shy.

You are comparing apple and oranges. Does being a composer effect your personality, or does being a certain personality predispose you to be a composer. Perhaps the later, but hardly the former. Which seems to be what the original post seems to indicate.

Actually, what I was thinking of was the latter: that it is because of their social awkwardness or shyness or lack of social facility that composers turn to composition. In fact it may be the same for writers. But I am only suggesting. I could be wrong. And I think what I am saying applies to the great composers, or perhaps only some composers. For example, can you imagine an outgoing personality writing Beethoven's last quartets? In his case his deafness also affected his social communication so that he was even more drawn to and concentrated on composition as a means of communicating his innermost thought and ideas to society. And based on this I can argue that his deafness, by limiting his opportunities for social self-expression, played a definitive role in the development of his later compositional language, deepening it to great philosophical depths and a new and unique language that have never since been equaled and are unlikely to. I don't think such a development in his compositional language would have been possible without his deafness, and the accompanying imposed relative social handicap/disconnection.

Perhaps. But if what you are saying only applies to "great" or "some composers" it's a rather moot point, since this thread seems to be suggesting that most composers share the trait of being introverts.

I think maybe I internalize a lot of thoughts and feelings that manifest themselves in my music. If I were a more outgoing person, maybe I would externalize a lot of more my emotions and therefore not have it come out in my music.

This is the most viable explanation for my theory!

I'm shy around girls.

Well let's put it this way, I'm a composer and I'm neither really that reserved or shy. Infact, for a composer I'm a very social person and talk to a lot of people. so arae composers generally shy or reserved? In my opinion, not always.

I'm shy around girls.

I use to be too lol, but over the years I've become more comfortable around them.