Female Composers/Musicians?

I know that this site is male orientated, just because men are and have been predominant in the music scene for years. So, what are your views on Female composers/musicians?

Now, I realise that sexism will probably be very strong in this thread...but, just realise girls will read this too...and you may not be liked after you make a bad comment.

Ill post my opinion after I have read everyone elses...I haven't actually made up my own mind yet.

I'm not quite sure what the question is. Are you asking if women belong in music? Of course they do! And I'm not sure what you mean by the site being "male-oriented". Just because the majority of composers are male doesn't mean its "male-oriented".

I've have just finished an essay on women musicians in the baroque era, and after doing it I strongly agree that women belong in music. Some of the women musicians I looked at had gifts that rivaled men and their own teachers, and the same goes for today. I have met many women that are better at music than me and so I think that they should be more than welcome in music as either composers or musicians, after all we're not living in the dark ages or anything.

i dont think it matters. Music is for everyone to share, expirence and perform.

It just so happens that men prefer music for some reason but of course women can join in the fun! Get over it people!

I try not to cast too many undue views on them, but if they're attractive, then I can't help myself :shifty:

Composition has always been and should always remain a sausage fest!

Just kidding.

But I don't think sexism is the reason that more guys compose. Women's brains are more capable of quick, strategic thinking and multitasking than men, and I think men are more likely to delve into big complex singular problems like writing a piece of music. Having said that, women may be more capable instrumentalists than men, as more and more women are becoming great instrumentalists, and that may just be the field of music that makes use of their ability to effectively concentrate on multiple tasks at once.

So I think men are probably more likely to compose, but there is nothing stopping women from doing it too.

Oh boy... I think people's brains are capable of whatever they want them to be.

Yah, well, the simple fact is that men's brains are women's brains are different, and I don't think we should deny that just to be politically correct. I believe that women's brains are just as powerful as men's brains, but our brains are different, so we are good at different things. That doesn't mean that every guy is better than every girl at one thing, or that every woman is better than every man at another thing, but it's kind of ignorant to say that men and women are exactly the same at everything. Women are better than men at a lot of things. That part is perfectly acceptable to say. But since that's true, I also think that men are better than women at a lot of things. AAAH! Don't hurt me!

And since there are very, very few girls on this site, I am just throwing it out there that one possible reason is that men's brains are more geared towards tasks like composing.

After all, it's not as if women don't outnumber men these days (though I'm not sure how true that is elsewhere in the world). The prevalence of men in classically styled composition is probably an incidental misconception. Although my mother doesn't compose, she was pretty good at reading sheet music. She envies me for having a better musical ear than she does, even if I can hardly read sheet music at all.

Or there could be some social constructs that persuade women about composing. I don't mean that there aren't physical differences. But social theory I think applies more.

I'm nice, I don't hurt anyone or yell, or try to argue.

I think you are right too. I just think social constructs play a larger role. I mean look at wages for women. They still earn like 84% (I think) of what men earn. That doesn't that all men earn more, but companies and people say that women are equal, then why is there such a large difference?

I think that social constructions are responsible for most of the economic and cultural inequalities that cause most of our prejudices, I don't see how that would effect this situation. It seems to me that there are an equal number of guys and girls who play instruments, and there aren't any social prejudices about girls in music. And I don't see socially why being a female would prevent a girl from deciding to go from playing music to writing music. I think guys just want to more, because it's something that attracts guys more than it attracts girls.

Ok, well...when you listen to the radio, lets say...on the classical music network station...and the radio host introduces the next song, and its a female...what is your reaction?

Mine is, and girls, please dont get upset at me (i totally support chicks), hmm...im not expecting a lot, but ill listen anyways.

The reason i dont expect alot is because (and now im going to be speaking very generally here) when i listen to pieces composed by women, a marjority of them are really uninteresting. They have good structure, and everything seems to flow...but then I listen to a composition of the same stamina from a man...and I am drawn more to his creativity rather than hers.

So?

In the composition class of my school there are about as many female students as male students. And there certainly isn't any difference in quality. And of course my own composition teacher is female and I consider her a brilliant composer.

Indeed.

Exactly. It was a hasty generalization.

If I had references, I would have listed them. But I don't. So I didn't.

Instrumentalists aside, I have often wondered whether the fact that composition remains to be a male-dominated industry, is sociologically or ability related. I don't think music is a particularly sexist industry (excluding rap music). There are many female songwriters who have had written great music, and have had success.

However, the field of composition seems to be entirely different. In nearly every field of art, women have come to the front, why not in composition? Granted, historically music could be interpreted as being sexist (dissonance and chromaticism in its first appearances supposedly represented crazy women!) but the world has changed, and I don't see why male composers seem to outweigh female composers in terms of numbers (at least as far as I'm aware!) Take this forum as an example. Where are the women?

Gardener, your example is interesting and encouraging. I should reserve my full judgement till I start my composition course in 2009..

http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/male-vs-female-composers-13482.html

search button... :whistling:

Womyn in my music!?!?!?!? UNPOSSIBLE.

All that talk about brain junk makes me cringe. Sure, LOL, there are some differences. But there are more differences between brains of the same sex than between different sexes. So come on now, lol.

I think girls compose just as well as guys. I don't really see any intrinsic physical problem barring people regardless of sex from composing music. Except if you told me women are deaf. Or something like that.

So, really. The reason people don't know a lot of female composers is because they don't look for'em either.

PS: Delia Derbyshire forever!

Yah, well, the simple fact is that men's brains are women's brains are different

Mind giving us some proof of that "simple fact"?

Maybe female artists are more likely to be 'encouraged' into the field of songwriting rather than composing?

I remember watching a programme various singers and they had a bit about Cheryl Crow. Now I'd argue she's a good songwriter, but they seemed to be focusing an awful lot on 'her sexy mouth' as they put it!

Point is, since the world is obviously still a bit sexist, women are more likely to be pushed into roles where they can be looked at, and composers don't get looked at as much as songwriters...

That's just an idea, I don't necassarily agree 100% with it!

Sex differences in humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this helps.

If this is a reply to my post (feel free to disregard the following if it isn't), I can't see how this helps at all. I didn't mean to suggest in my previous post that there are absolutely no neurological differences between men and women, since that would be patently absurd, but that none of those differences affect either gender's musical aptidude. As far as I can see, the Wikipedia article doesn't contain any information that would contradict this.

If this is a reply to my post (feel free to disregard the following if it isn't), I can't see how this helps at all. I didn't mean to suggest in my previous post that there are absolutely no neurological differences between men and women, since that would be patently absurd, but that none of those differences affect either gender's musical aptidude. As far as I can see, the Wikipedia article doesn't contain any information that would contradict this.

OH. In that case, sure. I won't argue that either.

I think the idea that women's brains are disposed to steer them away from composition and that it is a more attractive vocation to men than to women absurd. Composition is a blank slate, not a hobby like model airplanes or NASCAR. It's true men and women have different neurological dispositions, but to me it seems obvious that this would affect the way they compose, not whether they do. And in my experience, it does. The women composers I have known have tended to write music more focused on textures and expression of emotion. I have never known a woman composer who has written something as grandiose and, well masculine as some of the things I have written. Obviously, this is another generalization. But the old quote of Voltaire might apply here: "The composition of a tragedy requires testicles". Perhaps women in general are too good at dealing with their emotions, at forgiving their transgressors. Most of the great artists of the past have been deeply conflicted or injured. I can see, or sense, how this must work. A deep pain has a way of opening one up to the emotional intensity of everything around him. Van Gogh, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. Is that the reason some women are known to write technically proficient yet uninspiring works? Maybe. I dunno.

P.S. I've never been a woman, so my ideas are necessarily one-sided. I do enjoy the company of them, though. As often as possible. :P Seriously, though.

P.P.S. Yes, I am a sexist bastard. Kind of. Just a little.

I think the idea that women's brains are disposed to steer them away from composition and that it is a more attractive vocation to men than to women absurd. Composition is a blank slate, not a hobby like model airplanes or NASCAR. It's true men and women have different neurological dispositions, but to me it seems obvious that this would affect the way they compose, not whether they do. And in my experience, it does. The women composers I have known have tended to write music more focused on textures and expression of emotion. I have never known a woman composer who has written something as grandiose and, well masculine as some of the things I have written. Obviously, this is another generalization. But the old quote of Voltaire might apply here: "The composition of a tragedy requires testicles". Perhaps women in general are too good at dealing with their emotions, at forgiving their transgressors. Most of the great artists of the past have been deeply conflicted or injured. I can see, or sense, how this must work. A deep pain has a way of opening one up to the emotional intensity of everything around him. Van Gogh, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. Is that the reason some women are known to write technically proficient yet uninspiring works? Maybe. I dunno.

P.S. I've never been a woman, so my ideas are necessarily one-sided. I do enjoy the company of them, though. As often as possible. :P Seriously, though.

P.P.S. Yes, I am a sexist bastard. Kind of. Just a little.

I'd generally agree with this but personally, my music personally has an unmistakeable feminine feel. Don't ask me to define, as I can'tm but the general consensus seems to be that my music doesn't sound very "manly" at all. I generally write for smaller ensembles that focus more on emotion and texture than anything. Maybe this is a reflection of my self. I've never really identified with the stereotypical male. Before treading too far into self-indulgence, I will say that there are many male composers out there that seem to write "feminine" music.

Debussy, for example, always stuck me as sensitive and shy. Even La Mer, despite being for a full orchestra, doesn't feel as grand as something by say, Beethoven. Mozart is another. His music always struck me as girl-ish and very, very sweet.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, something like Bartok's music always struck me as the kind that is dripping with testosterone.

Now, what's my point with all of this? Nothing really. Just random, superfluous musings of a teenager with internet access and too much free time on his hands.

As long as we're talking about generalizations though, I will say that, from what I've observed, men tend to favor dissonance more than women.

General generalities are generally pretty bad as arguments in general.

How sexist, the above statements. Frown.

Van Gogh, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. Is that the reason some women are known to write technically proficient yet uninspiring works? Maybe. I dunno.

Back in the day, women wouldn't have been encouraged to write music particularly. Most probably there have been many females with the ability to produce masterful work of the ilk of Mozart, Beethoven, but simply weren't taken seriously.

Also you have to remember that the idea of feminity is largely based on societies' imposed roles. Wearing make-up is considered feminine today, but there have been periods in history where it wasn't.

I think something like Galina Ustvolskaya's music (example) would fit the stereotypical characteristics of "masculinity" much more than "femininity" and the same applies to a lot of other female composers I know. I'd seriously doubt that the people here who list the characteristics of "female music" would actually be able to tell apart pieces written by female and male composers to a reasonable degree by listening alone.

The idea that men favour dissonance more than women seems entirely random to me and is in no way confirmed by the listening experience I had. It seems to me that a lot of the people who say all this nonsense haven't actually heard much music composed by female composers.