Bad Key?

Is C a bad key to write jazz for? Everything just seems to work out really nice range wise in that key, but I wanted to make it was one of those "unwritten rules" that you "just don't do".

Thanks!

There is no such thing as a bad key. There are idiomatic for particular instruments (guitar, ect.) but no bad keys.

I disagree. F# Major IS a bad key... for guitar.

a significant amount jazz standards arent on Bb or Eb which are used for sax players..

blues in jazz is generally in F or Bb, but its also really piece of cake for the players, parker tunes were mostly in these keys, always made me wonder how his genius would deal with coltrane's giant steps three tonic system.

There will always be keys that are more difficult to execute with certain instruments, such as certain sharped and flatted keys like F# major, but none of them are "bad".

Absolutely true.

are you worried about how "good or Bad" the piece will be to perform or to sound ?

I don't think any key could sound bad by itself, depends completely of what you write...

about the "playable" matters ... what Instrumenst are you planing to use ?

There are no problems in any key for: Piano, Bass, Vibraphone.... drums:D

maybe the Sax(s), the Trumpet or trombone, ...mostly the guitar.

There are very good Jazz performers that can play in any key, actually you may travel through many keys while playing

Well, as a rule of thumb, don't write in trumpet's: B major, F# major and C# major, because the player will absolutely hate you. This applies to jazz players too.

Of course any good player will be fine with it, but it will still annoy him/her. :-)

(So This means A major, E major and B major, concert pitch, for Bb trumpets, or the ones mentioned for C trumpets.)

Absolutely true.

are you worried about how "good or Bad" the piece will be to perform or to sound ?

I don't think any key could sound bad by itself, depends completely of what you write...

about the "playable" matters ... what Instrumenst are you planing to use ?

There are no problems in any key for: Piano, Bass, Vibraphone.... drums:D

maybe the Sax(s), the Trumpet or trombone, ...mostly the guitar.

There are very good Jazz performers that can play in any key, actually you may travel through many keys while playing

Most definetly not true. There are keys that can be awkward for piano.

Most definitely not true. There are keys that can be awkward for piano.

That is only true for young inexperienced piano players. I know for a fact that at least at the two universities that I attended, piano players were not only expected to play comfortably in every key, they were required to in order to pass their sophomore barriers.

Piano is the MOST flexible instrument when it comes to keys, because most serious piano players learn from an early age basic theory and scales. By the time they reach college age they should be on their way to becoming proficient in their instrument, so keys signatures should not be a problem.

And this applies to almost every musician.

Piano is the MOST flexible instrument when it comes to keys

No it's not.

...because most serious piano players learn from an early age basic theory and scales.

Just like every serious musician.

By the time they reach college age they should be on their way to becoming proficient in their instrument, so keys signatures should not be a problem; go practice.

And this applies to almost every musician.

Precisely.

;)

Piano is no different than any other instrument when it comes to scalar/key-based facility. You learn them...you practice them. It's the same on piano as it is on trombone, flute or alto sax. Fingers and/or face doing things to make sounds come out.

[some keys are harder for the less-experienced to play in tune...but that's altogether a different matter] :whistling:

That said....any player who's spent any real time with their instrument should have no problems with any key. Period. If you can't play in F# as well as you play in Bb then you've got a problem.

When it comes to jazz however, sometimes the difficulty doesn't lie in technical facility with the key, it's recognizing the chord > translating it into the relevant scale > rearranging the scale into a creative and spontaneous "phrase" > blowing the air/pushing the buttons > oops, too late...we're in Eb harmonic-major now; start again, repeat ad infinitum.

mmm I kinda disagree with the things said about the piano, I find no problems at all, in any key.

Unplayable things are due to other things (bad or uncomfortable chords, arpeggios etc) but those are not Key problems but technical, that's a different matter.

What problem you could find in B major, C# Major, F# Major, Eb minor ... etc ... ?

none.... well that's my opinion.

actually, I hate writing in Ab or G or F# for piano because when I want that really extreme low octave I can't get it without a Bosendorfer!!! :angry:

oh come on ... those are good keys (mostly in minor)...

I think what you need is an Organ with a real 32' stop

oh come on ... those are good keys (mostly in minor)...

I think what you need is an Organ with a real 32' stop

pah. I'll take a 64' any day.

*Buys a plane ticket to Sydney to play the organ there where it has one of the only two true 64' stops in the world.*

64 ... yeah... there are very few of those....

it seems you want to descend down to the complete stop of waves 0.0Hz :)

like 0 kelvin degrees.

back into the topic....

... moving the Trumpet tuning slide you can solve some problems (setting a Trumpet in A for instance, I know "Trumpet in A" (AB) sounds weird but it can be done, I have done that)

actually, I hate writing in Ab or G or F# for piano because when I want that really extreme low octave I can't get it without a Bosendorfer!!! :angry:

64 ... yeah... there are very few of those....

it seems you want to descend down to the complete stop of waves 0.0Hz :)

like 0 kelvin degrees.

back into the topic....

... moving the Trumpet tuning slide you can solve some problems (setting a Trumpet in A for instance, I know "Trumpet in A" (AB) sounds weird but it can be done, I have done that)

They don't even make A trumpets anymore. Great for Tchaik unless you actually have Sibby which then the concern is moot.

They don't even make A trumpets anymore.

I was talking about moving the slide in a common Bb Trumpet, (if there is in Bb some passage in a difficult key, it may become easier doing what I say)

...and it wouldn't help all that much anyway, since you'd have to pull out the valve slides as well - or you'll be out of tune, horribly.

A Bb instrument isn't meant to be played with all it's tuning slides pulled to the brink, it sounds awful. The bore is all wrong as well.

It's simpler to write for instruments that actually exist, than asking your players to do unreasonable facsimilies.

It's simpler to write for instruments that actually exist, than asking your players to do unreasonable facsimilies.

Yes, of course I agree...

maybe Ab is too far yes (the total length of the horn is changed)

but A natural is not doable ?...

[re: trumpet in 'A'] ...A natural is not doable ?...

Why would you need a trumpet in 'A" ? The sound will not be noticibly different from Bb, and any musician worth his salt won't have any trouble with keys/fingerings/tuning.

Exactly. The Trumpet in A is no longer used today and 99.9999998% of the time is replaced with a Bb or C Tumpet today.

ok, so the use of a custom Bb-C Trumpet would solve the possible performance problems in so-called difficult keys

There are the basics of acoustics to consider, though. Keys that fall inside an instrument's natural resonance will generally sound better. For example, keys that contain the lower partials of a vibrating string instrument will sound "better" than keys that don't. this is because the open strings will vibrate sympathetically, giving the instrument a richer tone.

ok, so the use of a custom Bb-C Trumpet would solve the possible performance problems in so-called difficult keys

No, practicing solves the possible performance problems of so-called difficult keys.

:whistling:

Well, as a rule of thumb, don't write in trumpet's: B major, F# major and C# major, because the player will absolutely hate you. This applies to jazz players too.

Of course any good player will be fine with it, but it will still annoy him/her. :-)

(So This means A major, E major and B major, concert pitch, for Bb trumpets, or the ones mentioned for C trumpets.)

Get better players

Listen, write whatever you want. As long you aren't doing anything terribly impractical your players should be able to play it, PERIOD.