luderart Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 To answer, you can use the wisdom you have gathered from your teachers or from your own experience in composition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojar Voglar Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 From teachers: approach towards structure and motivic work plus how to handle an orchestra for rich and exciting music. From performers: write for instrument/voice and not against the instrument/voice. Personal experience: experience tons of live concerts with music you don't know yet. Take time for critisism you receive and try to understand why somebody smashed your piece. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Determine what your intention is with the piece. Know (or learn) how to accomplish it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYS65 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 To have something to say, or your music won't go beyond a few bars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadenza91 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 The burly lookin feller is the bass clef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U238 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 They shouldn't, they'll probably suck at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kibbletime Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 perhaps knowing that the composition can be improved infinitely and shouldn't be defended with excuses and denial when it comes to rational criticism. artistic conviction is one thing, pride that is driven by delusions of grandeur is another. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
António Capela Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Knowing the answer to that question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderart Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 To have something to say, or your music won't go beyond a few bars. I agree with the first part. In fact my own answer would probably be: To have something to express (or "He must know what he is trying to express through the piece"). But I don't agree with the second part, since a composer might well be able to express what he has to say or what he feels in a "few bars". Otherwise, what are miniatures and bagatelles? You can't suppose that the composer had nothing to say and therefore composed such short pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojar Voglar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I agree with the first part. In fact my own answer would probably be: To have something to express (or "He must know what he is trying to express through the piece"). But I don't agree with the second part, since a composer might well be able to express what he has to say or what he feels in a "few bars". Otherwise, what are miniatures and bagatelles? You can't suppose that the composer had nothing to say and therefore composed such short pieces. Miniatures and bagatelles are usually at least a minute-and-a-half up to three minutes long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojar Voglar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 And, to continue: nobody wouldn't mind all these soliloquys and inklings if there was any logical combination of form and creative musical language in them - although recent few bar pieces of yours are really terrible - sorry, I cannot tell a lie. All miniatures, preludes, nocturnos by composers such as Chopin, Mendelssohn, Schumann etc. are more or less perfect in formal and tonal structure. Believe me, their focus on both terms did not affect their expression at all. How to handle a form is necessary. Imagine the architecture: what would happen if all houses were designed strictly on inner expression of builders? Believe me, you wouldn't dare to try it in person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austenite Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Know that people who patiently insist in giving you advice are actually trying to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luderart Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 And, to continue - although recent few bar pieces of yours are really terrible - sorry, I cannot tell a lie. If you paid a little more attention to my recent pieces and their description, you would realize that they belong to a new type of short piece called "sententia". And, to continue Imagine the architecture: what would happen if all houses were designed strictly on inner expression of builders? Believe me, you wouldn't dare to try it in person. The analogy does not really hold. People listen to music for pleasure. Form, therefore, is not as critical. Architecture has the considerations of safety and practicality in addition to self-expression. If the form of my music does not hold up to your standards, you can simply stop listening to it. You would not die from listening to it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojar Voglar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 If you paid a little more attention to my recent pieces and their description, you would realize that they belong to a new type of short piece called "sententia". The analogy does not really hold. People listen to music for pleasure. Form, therefore, is not as critical. Architecture has the considerations of safety and practicality in addition to self-expression. If the form of my music does not hold up to your standards, you can simply stop listening to it. You would not die from listening to it!!! Nothing of your Sententias, Inklings or Soliloquys holds up to my standards and, I am pretty sure, to most of people musically trained for at least a couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojar Voglar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 I am also starting to convince myself you will never improve. So maybe you are right. Maybe I should stop wasting time with you. :closedeyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadenza91 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Nothing of your Sententias, Inklings or Soliloquys holds up to my standards and, I am pretty sure, to most of people musically trained for at least a couple of years. A lot of people who have been musically 'trained' probably don't have explicit 'standards' to which they judge music, but simply approve of music which appeals to them on some level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treehugger1995 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 prepare what you want to say, say it, reflect on what you said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siwi Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Being able to play at least one instrument to near-professional standard. There has been no great composer who was not also a capable performer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treehugger1995 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Being able to play at least one instrument to near-professional standard. There has been no great composer who was not also a capable performer. John Mackey ostimusic.com one of the greatest composers in the band world, he never really played an instrument, his piano skills are pretty minimal, and I bet he won't make a great singer either. He learned composition through his uncle (?) who taught him to compose with a software, and it is through that, along with the relations he's made with excellent musicians that he went to CIM for his bachelors, then studied with John Corigliano at Julliard, and became one of the biggest names in modern Wind Ensemble music. You don't need to be a professional performer to be a great composer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austenite Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 There has been no great composer who was not also a capable performer. Berlioz? Wagner? :dunno: (Otherwise I'm doomed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U238 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 This would be the point where tokke locks the thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.fseventsd Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Berlioz? Wagner? :dunno: (Otherwise I'm doomed). Berlioz was a guitarist. Wagner was a conductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austenite Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Berlioz was a guitarist. Wagner was a conductor. Berlioz played the guitar (for the record, I do as well). But he did never attempt to give any public performance. (He did learn to conduct, though). Wagner, of course, was a composer turned conductor (like Berlioz before him). Whether to consider the orchestra as an "instrument" is another debate. But I took Siwi's post as referring to playing an actual instrument in a near-professional level as a must for any successful composer, which I doubt is entirely true, regardless of how obviously advantageous it might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siwi Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Berlioz? Wagner? :dunno: (Otherwise I'm doomed). Berlioz had mastered the flute whilst still a teenager and could also play the guitar reasonably well. Wagner could play the piano at least well enough to demonstrate his scores to performers, and was also a proficient conductor, something all aspiring composers should also try to get experience in. John Mackay's music is reasonably proficient and well-written - clearly playable - but also rather conservative and not particularly distinctive in the way it uses the instruments deployed. His lack of performance experience in the ensembles he writes for shows somewhat: as well as demonstrating rather 'textbook' orchestration and inexperience with strings (too often 'stacked' rather than written in most advantagous registers, next-to-no bowings, assumes basses have a C extension, etc). He even admits in the blurb to one piece that he didn't realise that drumsticks shouldn't be used on timpani, something which all orchestration books point out and which the 'ear' of somebody used to hearing timpani in an orchestra would probably notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadenza91 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 This would be the point where tokke locks the thread. MILD DISAGREEMENT, ALL THREADS ON LOCKDOWN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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