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so i can waste my time exploring raffined harmonies, music production or mix engeneering but the bottom line of music is melody (i think). i've quit making music years ago because my talent doesn't get me too far melody wise. i can't quit :) so how does melody work? what is a melody? (wiki doesn't satisfy me). i tried studying dozens of good melodies, but reaching to too few conclusions. many of these hit songs have very simple harmony, and many have 1 pitch per chord melodies. (!!!!!) i realise that the rhythm of the melody (not the rhythm of the song) is the soul and it's harmonic content just a bonus, but it's harmonic content has a few strict rules (which are not clear to me).

 

 

i came back at studying by listening to "blaze of glory" starting theme. ("bon jovi blaze of glory theme.mid" i attached it).

 

what underlying chords does this melody have? i came up with these ("bog chords is this right.mid")

it has 2 mesures. to me it sounds like the first bar asks a question (i know, i'm taking music from scratch), and the second bar answers. but,

how does it ask a question if it starts from "a" and after reaching to "C" (which is it's relative major, not a dominant feel pitch) comes right back to "a", how does that sound like a question? is it the interval from which it's comming back to "a"?

 

also, each of these 2 parts (2bars) are made from 2 parts (2 beats each). what are those? they sound like a statement (the first 2beats) and a target or the actual question (beats 3 and 4). these parts not only have separate harmonic content, but different rhythm too. the fist part ("the statement") has a dotted 16th, and the second part has normal 16th rhythm.

 

how would u study this piece of melody? it has 5seconds, big deal :)) . but it made hystory.

bon jovi blaze of glory theme.mid

bog chords is this right.mid

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Depending on your will to understand melody, you can look for two teatrises on melody written by Reicha, and by Hindemith. you can find them for free on the internet^^

What is the title of the Hindemith?  I could find the Reicha, but not the Hindemith.

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I always had a hard time with harmonies but a great time with melodies.I usually work on the melodies first. I would definitely work on chord progression first.Keep coming up with different chord progressions (i do this on my large keyboard and use a smaller keyboard for the computer) until you find something that pleases your ear.If it sounds bad or okay keep going till you find something that sounds good . Other than that orchestration books can help with giving color and/or more personality to the melody. Also give yourself an idea of what emotion you want your melody to convey. After you can look up music scales or notes / chords that show certain emotions or character. All this can help with and the melody itself.

 

 

The Book I recommend for orchestration that helped me with color :

 

Orchestration by walter piston (you can find it a music library)

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thanks guys. i still have ~40 pages form the first book to read lol. paul hindemith, he is something.. that's what i call a man!

unfortunatelly until now he excludes rhythm and is restraining himself from three part writing shees.. how could somebody dare to write a composition book without analising the rhythm rules (?) unfortunatelly i listened to some of his works and for me they're nothing. but the harmonic analysis is impressive, although sometimes i think it's wrong.

anyways i will analise this melody thru hindemith's eyes (or at least what i understood from the book) and sort of change the parts to prove what's right or wrong.

 

actually i did this, when i heard his step-progression theory, but there was no real analisys of the degree-progression, and of course my altered melody version sucks because i didn't developed a rhythm theory yet (or if you guys know some books on this.. accents, rhythm, again i think this is 99.9% of music)

here it is:

hey if u know some rhythmic rules you can apply them on this midi, or any theory

 

btw thanks again ChristianPerrotta

 

variations on bog.mp3

variations on bog.mid

MP3
0:00
0:00

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I really don't see how you can say that rhythm is "99.9% of music." It is no more important than pitch in a melody, and for me at least, the harmony is everything in making a coherent piece of music. Rhythmic is a thematic device more than a structural one. 

Everything is vital though.

 

Don't think that that's a very coherent post. I am no writer of text!

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I really don't see how you can say that rhythm is "99.9% of music." It is no more important than pitch in a melody, and for me at least, the harmony is everything in making a coherent piece of music. Rhythmic is a thematic device more than a structural one. 

Everything is vital though.

 

Don't think that that's a very coherent post. I am no writer of text!

try to steal a good song progression. lol most of the good songs have the same progression. try to steal the harmony of the melody on top of the chord progression.. well in most if not all the music hits it's very basic: it's a note of the triad. u won't find a melody starting or accenting on a major 6 interval of a minor chord playing below for ex. no, either the 1,minor3, or 5, sometimes a 7  but it will become to fancy and the more fancy it becomes the less hitty.

 

now.. try to steal the rhythm pattern of a melody.

no matter how much you will change the harmony, everybody will recognize the stolen melody (the original) and your melody just a copy/variation.

 

is that enough proof?

if we search on human evolution probably rhythm was the actual music and it's initiation starting point.

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try to steal a good song progression. lol most of the good songs have the same progression. try to steal the harmony of the melody on top of the chord progression.. well in most if not all the music hits it's very basic: it's a note of the triad. u won't find a melody starting or accenting on a major 6 interval of a minor chord playing below for ex. no, either the 1,minor3, or 5, sometimes a 7  but it will become to fancy and the more fancy it becomes the less hitty.

 

now.. try to steal the rhythm pattern of a melody.

no matter how much you will change the harmony, everybody will recognize the stolen melody (the original) and your melody just a copy/variation.

 

is that enough proof?

if we search on human evolution probably rhythm was the actual music and it's initiation starting point.

Here are two very rubbish melodies I wrote, one taking the rhythm of an incredibly well-known piece (a rhythm which is the work's most famous feature), and one taking the harmony of another one. I think you'll agree that the harmonies of the second one make it sound much more derivative than the first, which steals (as far as I can remember from my memory of the piece's original notation) that famous rhythmic motif entirely. Melody Rhythm Theft.bmp Melody Chord Theft.bmp

 

Harmonies (which are the same as chords? Synonyms, as you seem to not understand) are the same in so many modern songs because they're so simple. Listen to the harmonies in Strauss' Metamorphosen. No-one's stealing those. 

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for me recognizing harmony is like recognizing materials like wood, metal. of course the perception is also as colors. nothing wrong with recognizing them, but it's not good enough.. for people, i think. harmony is static simultanous intervals. the melody chord theft example has to have a rhythm to develop in time. that rhythm you kept, the chords maintain their rhythm and the melody retains the accents, wihch is like usless struggles according to my theory, but i haddn't deveped it too far. i feel like a pioneer here..

on the rhythm theft i recognize i don't know the original, those big breaks make it so aqward to me and the whole 2/4 rhythm is unusual to me i admit.

i guess you guys could ignore the rhythm conclusion that i have, even because even if you'd like to, there's nothing you can read (or at least i can't find interesting books,lecture) but there are tons of learning to do in the harmony aspect.

but don't be surprized if..

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i came back at studying by listening to "blaze of glory" starting theme. ("bon jovi blaze of glory theme.mid" i attached it).

 

what underlying chords does this melody have? i came up with these ("bog chords is this right.mid")

it has 2 mesures. to me it sounds like the first bar asks a question (i know, i'm taking music from scratch), and the second bar answers. but,

how does it ask a question if it starts from "a" and after reaching to "C" (which is it's relative major, not a dominant feel pitch) comes right back to "a", how does that sound like a question? is it the interval from which it's comming back to "a"?

 

also, each of these 2 parts (2bars) are made from 2 parts (2 beats each). what are those? they sound like a statement (the first 2beats) and a target or the actual question (beats 3 and 4). these parts not only have separate harmonic content, but different rhythm too. the fist part ("the statement") has a dotted 16th, and the second part has normal 16th rhythm.

 

how would u study this piece of melody? it has 5seconds, big deal :)) . but it made hystory.

ok so i finished the book "hindemith paul - the craft of musical composition" a couple of days ago and i owe an explanation for the original bog melody (bon jovi blaze of glory theme.mid) /my original post.

i'll analyze it thru "hindemith's eyes":

 

so the actual chords used in the piece don't matter, just the harmonic content of the melody.  the harmonic progression starts with "a", with the note "a", then "c" which only confirms the "a" harmony (it's his minor 3). but then it becomes interesting, the melody hits a "d"  (wich is outside the "a" harmony) and then rezolves it on another "a". this d-a melodic interval makes "d" as a root tone, so the harmonic progression so far is: a-d.

now the second measure begins. it starts with a "g" held for 2 beats, making the progression: a-d-g so far, but the song's caracteristics comes again. the note "e" comes which makes the preceding "g" his slave, so we have: a-d-g-e so far (the "e" harmony would replace the "g", but that tone is held alone for a long time so we can't ignore it). ok, now we have the last 2 notes. these are "f" followed by the final resolution to "d". "f" becomes a subordonate to "d" just making sure the ear perceives "d" as the resolution. so we finally have the harmonic progression: a-d-g-e-d.

so what's the tonality? it's not "a", because it's not suported by it's 5 or 4. "d" is the tonality, suported by the first "a" (his 5) and "g" (his 4).

the cadence is actually weird because before the last 2 resolution tones there's it major second ("e"). this can also be a neighboring tone of "f" if i'm not making a mistake. so the cadence could be 4-2-1 or the whole melody could be a 5-2-1 cadence (i'm lousy at cadences). actually if considerig "e" (the second) as a neighbouring tone this makes a 4-1 cadence, 5-4-1 thru the whole melody.

 

hindemith also takes a look at step progressions, which are well done in this melody. "a" to "g" to "f" and "e" to "d". well done.

hindemith doesn't refer to phrases, musical question, etc, and nothing about rhythm of course. (if it's equally important as harmony, how many books on harmony and how many on rhythm have you read? .. )

 

please argue if my analysis is wrong, this is what i expect a composition forum to do. (not infinitely posting their music like on effin youtube!!)

anyway to prove this analysis, i tried to keep his progression thru other tones. the only problem was keeping the second in the cadence, without becoming to similar to the original but having a pleasant melody. but if i considered it a neighbouring tone for the minor 3, i just went to another neighbouring tone for the 5, just to prove that it was a neighbouring tone.

oh, and transpose it back to "d" if you analise my variation, i seem to be transposing a lot..

variation on bog2.mid

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