Music And Truth

This is an issue I think about all the time especially as it relates to music. What is truth? When people ask me "what music do you like?" and I tell them classical some people have told me "do you listen to anything normal?" and some even advise me that I should "broaden my taste" and listen to more than just classical. This can get under my skin especially since classical music incorporates over 700 years of music that couldn't be any more diverse and "broad". To know classical music is to truly know what "broadening one's taste" really means! 

"do you listen to anything normal?"

AHHH

I'm not sure I exactly understand the question here. But I can relate to you. Not many of my friends are interested in classical music and they want me to listen to their dub step and what not even though that's not my cup of tea. Then somehow they think it makes me closed-minded and snobby. I can't claim to understand what makes some people call Skrillex a genius while shunning Beethoven. I just ignore them and remain secure in my own passion. I find that they listen to music that speaks to the part of their ego that they value most. People like throbbing bass lines or primal/carnal lyrics because it appeals to the part of them that should be wearing a loin cloth and dancing around a fire(the 'id' so to speak). Nothing inherently wrong with that. Some of us like to listen to music that appeals to the super-ego. Some of us listen to it all. To each his own, I guess.

Stop caring about what other people think.

In general, other people are idiots.

Here's the thing: from thoso people's perspective, what's music for? For some people it's just a way to get some distraction, a background for another activity, a rhythm for dancing, or a highlight for movies and television. For us, musicians, composers, it means something much bigger and much more independent. For us, music itself can be enough, while most of "non-artist" people tend to need something else, like a movie, a scene, a diner, lyrics (especially these).

They don't know music as the art we know. One source for this problems is found in musical education at schools. As these subjects (not only music, but arts in general) don't have a proper treatment (if any), those people will grow up with no intimate contact with music. It will only serve as a tool for other things.

Of course this is not absolute; many people who were not stimulated at school will eventually become music lovers (I am an example of this).

I don't think any musical style is inherently "better" than another.  We are attracted to the familiar, and we can't discern the nuances in a style we are unfamiliar with, so we don't appreciate it as much.  If someone never listens to classical music, all they can hear is how it is different from the music they do listen to.  Not the differences between different classical composers.  And I can't hear the differences between today's pop artists, because I tend to avoid that station on the radio.  It's a case of needing to get your ears and your experience adjusted.  If I was willing to sit through the sofa commercials to listen to some of it, I'd probably grow to like some of it.  As it is, I'd take Nina Simone or Billie Holiday over most of it.  

But my mom was right, I tried asparagus enough times, and I did actually learn to enjoy it.  Used to make me gag.  

But my mom was right, I tried asparagus enough times, and I did actually learn to enjoy it.  Used to make me gag.  

Sauteed in butter with chopped garlic and some salt and pepper.

Do we write for ourselves or for others?

I do both. Some of my pieces I write as a kind of... masturbatory effort, I guess? Just because I like to hear myself think on paper? I'll come up with my favorite harmonies and really hard rhythms and all kinds of stuff.

Then, when I am writing for others, I am mindful of the level of difficulty/choice of harmony/melody/etc. to make sure it is appropriate for the medium and occasion.

Not everyone takes the time to gaze at the night sky. 

Not everyone takes the time to gaze at the night sky. 

Not everyone has a night sky to gaze at.

Not everyone has a night sky to gaze at.

True, yet everyone has their own positive metaphorical relation to the unappreciated beauty of excellent music. 

True, yet everyone has their own positive metaphorical relation to the unappreciated beauty of excellent music. 

Also not true. Not everybody has music.

Not everyone takes the time to gaze at the night sky. 

Truly a great reflection 

Also not true. Not everybody has music.

I know you understand, I get no enjoyment from baseless arguing. Come on, guy. 

There are people born who die never knowing music. Their stories tend to be tragedies that your statement disregards.

There are people born who die never knowing music. Their stories tend to be tragedies that your statement disregards.

A painter may put passion, emotion, and skill into a work of art that I don't understand and disregard as something I don't like. The same can be said for music, architecture, sculpting, whatever. The night sky is something that I find beautiful; it may not be to someone else. I'm sure others find beauty in things I'm not as interested and knowledgeable in. 

[Everyone] has their own positive metaphorical relation to the unappreciated beauty of excellent music. 

Also not true. Not everybody has music.

U238 is correct in a strict sense. If one were to say, for instance, 'I'm going to Seattle' though not 'I' but somebody else were going, then the statement would be false, since 'I' would be untrue. Something similar can be said here. Since U238's claim that 'Not everybody has music' is true, then the statement 'Everyone... to the' etc is false, since the predicate is dependent on 'everybody', which isn't the case. If the statement were rather 'Most people... to the' etc, then it would be true, as it can be shown that most people hear music and probably have some relationship to it as described (though what's described is a different issue).

But this strict mode of logic seems beside the point, anyway, for this discussion.

U238 is correct in a strict sense. If one were to say, for instance, 'I'm going to Seattle' though not 'I' but somebody else were going, then the statement would be false, since 'I' would be untrue. Something similar can be said here. Since U238's claim that 'Not everybody has music' is true, then the statement 'Everyone... to the' etc is false, since the predicate is dependent on 'everybody', which isn't the case. If the statement were rather 'Most people... to the' etc, then it would be true, as it can be shown that most people hear music and probably have some relationship to it as described (and what's described is a different issue).

 

But this strict mode of logic seems beside the point, anyway, for this discussion.

True. 

It's like... words, man. They just... come out wrong, and stuff.

I was referring to the feeling Sonataform was speaking of in the original post, the one where we as composers don't get why the beauty we often hear in obscure music to the masses is looked down upon, like we are some grotesque malformation of societal nitwits that don't care about the garbage spewed from Skrillex's speakers. I'm sure other forms of art lovers know the feeling as well. 

P.S. Fact: Skrillex is garbage, ask any competent musician in that scene. 

I was referring to the feeling Sonataform was speaking of in the original post, the one where we as composers don't get why the beauty we often hear in obscure music to the masses is looked down upon, like we are some grotesque malformation of societal nitwits that don't care about the garbage spewed from Skrillex's speakers. I'm sure other forms of art lovers know the feeling as well.

I feel the same. It's tragic to wake up everyday knowing that most the people I'll ever meet, if everybody for the rest of my life, will never know why I cried at the end of Tristan und Isolde - and why I'll never cry at the end of The Resistence. Not for any personal reason; but because the music itself was so overwhelming, and at the time I couldn't imagine any other kind, as though it were the first art I'd ever perceived. Sadly I've not even found many classical folk to hold up that feeling with: less Wagner today, and more Eric Whitacre. But, oh well.

Does anyone else get the thing where the room sort of bends?  Crying, yes, I also do that.  But a sensation like something is happening to your inner ear and your balance when something is very good?  Or is that just me?  Feels like being in an elevator and the floor has just dropped under you.  

I sometimes get a sensation of immense pressure in my sinuses and inner ear as if the music is pressing my cranium with some strange force. Usually when it's something bold and powerful. Otherwise I normally get the tears and the goosebumps and a sensation like the exhaustion/relief/satisfaction following an orgasm (I know that's awkward and I can't believe I just typed that). But there ya go. That's how I generally react to beautiful music.

Hahaha!  The internet is forever.  That one is now preserved for all time.  

As a Soldier, I was laughed at and completely ridiculed for listening to anything other than rock, rap, r&b, or pop.

My love of the classics and composing is like having my men look at me like I'm intentionally hating on them.

It's not even thought of as a manly thing to do or to pass the time. It's pitied and hated.

As a Soldier, I was laughed at and completely ridiculed for listening to anything other than rock, rap, r&b, or pop.

My love of the classics and composing is like having my men look at me like I'm intentionally hating on them.

It's not even thought of as a manly thing to do or to pass the time. It's pitied and hated.

Such a surprise that professional mass murderers don't have respect for individuality and substantive culture.

 

 

Such a surprise that professional mass murderers don't have respect for individuality and substantive culture.

Such a surprise that the site's professional mass provocateur doesn't even back down from needlessly insulting a defender of freedom and order. Your life must be so fulfilling if this is how you behave towards everyone.