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Are Minor Chords Just Maj7 Chords Without The Root?

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for example is the e minor chord (e-g-b) just a Cmaj7 (without C - the root) (in it's harmonic function)?

i could give many examples, but i'll choose the theme of the romanian rapsody as it's one of my favorite pieces. i'm in a total harmony confusion..

as i understand it now, (the theme at the begining) establishes in it's first musical phrase the A major harmony (a-c#-e). the phrase ends with the forth tone of the established harmony (d) (which i believe makes it sound like a question, not sure the explanation why. maybe because Amajor acts as a dominat to the D harmony, practically shifting the central tone from A to D - very confusing to the ear < my explanation). then the second micro-phrase uses the tones b-c#-d (2-3-4 from the harmony). this should be a minor harmony (it has a minor third) but it doesn't sound too sad, only a bit confused (this could be because this harmony isn't b minor, but rather G major without the root - G). and the third thing that troubles me is the third little phrase which is made by the tones c#-d-e (3-4-5). this should not only be a minor harmony group but being constructed on the third step of the scale, it should have a phrygian sound. in reality it sound like "home" and quite major. the only explanation (i find) is that it's harmony isn't c# minor, but rather Amajor (without the root - A).

so basically the harmony of the theme is Amajor, then Gmajor, then quickly back to Amajor.

 

am i missing something? am i completely disoriented? or am i right?

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I don't think you're on the right track. B-D could also be part of an implied E7, which would make more sense in this case (Amaj-E7-Amaj being a pretty conventional progression).

 

This might help:

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I don't think you're on the right track. B-D could also be part of an implied E7, which would make more sense in this case (Amaj-E7-Amaj being a pretty conventional progression).

 

This might help:

oh god, now that you mentioned, i kind of split the second phrase into to micro phrases but if i put them together they "walk" on these tones b-c#-d-e which indicates the E harmony (b-e being the strongest interval). and yeah it's 7 (d) is a tone pretty highlighted from this bounch of tones. uff

(i'll listen to the link after i'll get some sleep. thanks)

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The lack of the root note is crucial. The c major chord without the C would just be E-G, which can be found in many chords.

this idea actually started from hindemith's book. i remember he calculated the sub-harmonics of the intervals and chords, and noted that the instability of the minor chord comes from the fact the root is actually a different tone in the sub harmonics. that would be the major third down from the root of the "minor chord". i'll recheck and come back with more precise details on this

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are major chords just min7 chords without root ? No, same answer for your question, No.

 

If you start doing that then you will remove any kind of structure of harmony, is like if I ask,

 

what chord is Bb+D+F# ?

 

Bbaug ? no, is GmM7 just omit root :D... no, is Em9(b5) just omit root and 3rd :musicwhistle:... no, it's actually C7(#11) just omit root, 3rd and 5th, :w00t: ... no, it's really Ab9#5#11#13 SmileySuicide.gif

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are major chords just min7 chords without root ? No, same answer for your question, No.

 

If you start doing that then you will remove any kind of structure of harmony, is like if I ask,

 

what chord is Bb+D+F# ?

 

Bbaug ? no, is GmM7 just omit root :D... no, is Em9(b5) just omit root and 3rd :musicwhistle:... no, it's actually C7(#11) just omit root, 3rd and 5th, :w00t: ... no, it's really Ab9#5#11#13 SmileySuicide.gif

in this theory there are is no such thing as a minor chord.

but, i learned (at the guitar playing, gypsy jazz more exactly) that you can enclose (not sure this is the proper term) a tone, for example c, with 2 tones, 1 its leading tone (b) and 2 it's major second (d) (so b-d going to c). indeed these 2 tones, or the interval they produce sound enough to tonify/prepare a tone. my question is why? how do you explain this?

why cant i use b-flat and d-flat for example to enclose c? they surround c, and yet they don't work at all. on the contrary these exact notes make c feel very unsettled. how do you explain this?

 

well this crazy theory explains it all very well. the interval b-d is a minor third which means its root is acually g. so it's really Gmajor going to C.

in the second case, b flat - d flat has its root in g flat (G flat major). and G flat going to C is possibly the worst interval for a cadence (a tritone).

 

how do we explain my question in the "classic" music theory?

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in this theory there are is no such thing as a minor chord.

but, i learned (at the guitar playing, gypsy jazz more exactly) that you can enclose (not sure this is the proper term) a tone, for example c, with 2 tones, 1 its leading tone (b) and 2 it's major second (d) (so b-d going to c). indeed these 2 tones, or the interval they produce sound enough to tonify/prepare a tone. my question is why? how do you explain this?

why cant i use b-flat and d-flat for example to enclose c? they surround c, and yet they don't work at all. on the contrary these exact notes make c feel very unsettled. how do you explain this?

 

well this crazy theory explains it all very well. the interval b-d is a minor third which means its root is acually g. so it's really Gmajor going to C.

in the second case, b flat - d flat has its root in g flat (G flat major). and G flat going to C is possibly the worst interval for a cadence (a tritone).

 

how do we explain my question in the "classic" music theory?

 

Context is important to determine function. A minor third on b can act as a dominant with a tacit root, but only in context can it definitively be considered as such. Same with the OP, a minor triad can function as a M7 chord with a tacit root if the context supports it, but without said context function can not be determined and a minor triad by itself is simply a minor triad.

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